Is there a cheap way to do C41

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

I recently shot some Ektar and am working through a roll of Phoenix. I priced up developing and scanning and remembered why I don't shoot colour, but, I could if I could find a cost effective way of doing C41 that doesn't require a huge outlay. My problem with the kits is that I am unlikely to shoot more than a couple of rolls of colour per month. Is there a convenient way to develop colour that won't die before I get my monies worth?

Also, I know where I can maybe get some tetenal, c41 colourtabs, but I don't know what they are. Any wisdom is, as always, gratefully recieved

BrianShaw · Jun 11, 2024

How inexpensive is needed to achieve your goal for "cheap"? To reduce cost (and increase convenience) I use a commercial lab. For me, inexpensive 120 color film is about $8 and more expnsive is $13. The processing is $13 plus return shipping of negatives is $6. I honestly can't imagine the (true) value of trying to make it more "cheap" by home processing at the low volume that I use, which is slightly higher than you but not much higher.

madNbad · Jun 11, 2024

Bellini C41 kit is about $44 usd from Freestyle Photo and will do 8-10 rolls of 135-36:

https://www.freestylephoto.com/2510001-Bellini-Kit-C-41-1-Liter-Negative-Film-Processing-Kit

Rudeofus · Jun 11, 2024

Cerebum said:
I recently shot some Ektar and am working through a roll of Phoenix. I priced up developing and scanning and remembered why I don't shoot colour, but, I could if I could find a cost effective way of doing C41 that doesn't require a huge outlay. My problem with the kits is that I am unlikely to shoot more than a couple of rolls of colour per month. Is there a convenient way to develop colour that won't die before I get my monies worth?

Since you run at low to moderate number of rolls per month, you best strategy would be to split such a kit into smaller units and keep the not yet used concentrates in their containers, tightly sealed and ideally with inert gas to keep the Oxygen out. You need to protect all three color developer concentrates and the "fixer" part of the BLIX. No special preservation methods are needed for the "bleach" part of the BLIX and the final rinse.

This way you can create 250ml concentrate at once, which will develop 3-4 rolls of film in consecutive runs. The remaining concentrate will last for about half a year, if you are lucky a full year. Since kits become rapidly cheaper as their size grows, you can evaluate your developer use and buy the optimal kit.

Optimizing beyond that may sacrifice image quality, and since C-41 film material is anything but cheap, it may not be worth the risk.

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

BrianShaw said:
How inexpensive is needed to achieve your goal for "cheap"? To reduce cost (and increase convenience) I use a commercial lab. For me, inexpensive 120 color film is about $8 and more expnsive is $13. The processing is $13 plus return shipping of negatives is $6. I honestly can't imagine the (true) value of trying to make it more "cheap" by home processing at the low volume that I use, which is slightly higher than you but not much higher.

Analogue Wonderland (god bless em) develop and scan for £12 per film which is very reasonable, but I really fancy having a go at colour developing. I don't want to spend £40 on a kit, knowing I then only have a certain amount of time to shoot and dev X rolls before the kit dies. If I could find something cheaper that did, say, half a dozen rolls and was half the price, that could work. I was also very encouraged by Koraks comments on developing vision 3 in c41, because that film is comparable with mono in price

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

madNbad said:
Bellini C41 kit is about $44 usd from Freestyle Photo and will do 8-10 rolls of 135-36:

https://www.freestylephoto.com/2510001-Bellini-Kit-C-41-1-Liter-Negative-Film-Processing-Kit

I do like Bellini stuff. As its a liquid, is it possible to mix part of the kit? Because that would be interesting

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

Rudeofus said:
Since you run at low to moderate number of rolls per month, you best strategy would be to split such a kit into smaller units and keep the not yet used concentrates in their containers, tightly sealed and ideally with inert gas to keep the Oxygen out. You need to protect all three color developer concentrates and the "fixer" part of the BLIX. No special preservation methods are needed for the "bleach" part of the BLIX and the final rinse.

This way you can create 250ml concentrate at once, which will develop 3-4 rolls of film in consecutive runs. The remaining concentrate will last for about half a year, if you are lucky a full year. Since kits become rapidly cheaper as their size grows, you can evaluate your developer use and buy the optimal kit.

Optimizing beyond that may sacrifice image quality, and since C-41 film material is anything but cheap, it may not be worth the risk.

So that is possible? Brilliant. That would do nicely. Which are the best kits for small mixes?

BrianShaw · Jun 11, 2024

Cerebum said:
Analogue Wonderland (god bless em) develop and scan for £12 per film which is very reasonable, but I really fancy having a go at colour developing. I don't want to spend £40 on a kit, knowing I then only have a certain amount of time to shoot and dev X rolls before the kit dies. If I could find something cheaper that did, say, half a dozen rolls and was half the price, that could work. I was also very encouraged by Koraks comments on developing vision 3 in c41, because that film is comparable with mono in price

I understand the trade-offs you are considering. I do the same with home processing B&W as I don't shoot more than a couple rolls per month. for that, I more often give in to buying chemistry, though. The fact that you want to process color film, to me, makes the decision a bit of an easy one. I'm sure that you can find the right kit for both your needs and cost goal. Enjoy!

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

BrianShaw said:
I understand the trade-offs you are considering. I do the same with home processing B&W as I don't shoot more than a couple rolls per month. for that, I more often give in to buying chemistry, though. The fact that you want to process color film, to me, makes the decision a bit of an easy one. I'm sure that you can find the right kit for both your needs and cost goal. Enjoy!

Thanks

koraks · Jun 11, 2024

Cerebum said:
Is there a convenient way to develop colour that won't die before I get my monies worth?

Some time ago I jotted down my thoughts on this; it's a long story, so I'm just going to link to it instead of paste it here: https://tinker.koraks.nl/photograph...ta-using-color-c41-and-ra4-chemistry-at-home/
The short answer is "yes", as you can keep concentrates or even working strength developer around for a long time in most cases. Bleach and fix are less of a concern since they're inherently more stable, especially the bleach.

Have a go at it; I can only recommend it.

loccdor · Jun 11, 2024

Standard 1 liter C-41 kits can last about 6-8 months and do around 20 rolls before you see a drop off in quality. The manuals for them are very conservative estimates.

Works out to about $2 a roll for me.

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

koraks said:
Some time ago I jotted down my thoughts on this; it's a long story, so I'm just going to link to it instead of paste it here: https://tinker.koraks.nl/photograph...ta-using-color-c41-and-ra4-chemistry-at-home/
The short answer is "yes", as you can keep concentrates or even working strength developer around for a long time in most cases. Bleach and fix are less of a concern since they're inherently more stable, especially the bleach.

Have a go at it; I can only recommend it.

Brilliant, thanks

Tom Taylor · Jun 11, 2024

Kodak use to sell a 20L C-41 Developer/Replenisher kit for $24.30 which is now discontinued but is available from Fuji. You also need a starter and bleach - both of which are available. To use it just measure out the quantity needed to develop the number of rolls/sheets to be developed. You can buy this stuff from Unique Photo.

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

loccdor said:
Standard 1 liter C-41 kits can last about 6-8 months and do around 20 rolls before you see a drop off in quality. The manuals for them are very conservative estimates.

Works out to about $2 a roll for me.

This would appear to be happening I better get some bottles

Cerebum · Jun 11, 2024

Tom Taylor said:
Kodak use to sell a 20L C-41 Developer/Replenisher kit for $24.30 which is now discontinued but is available from Fuji. You also need a starter and bleach - both of which are available. To use it just measure out the quantity needed to develop the number of rolls/sheets to be developed. You can buy this stuff from Unique Photo.

Brilliant, thanks. I will look into it

Tom Taylor · Jun 11, 2024

loccdor said:
Standard 1 liter C-41 kits can last about 6-8 months and do around 20 rolls before you see a drop off in quality. The manuals for them are very conservative estimates.

Works out to about $2 a roll for me.

Kodak says the maximum number of rolls of 135-36 Porta 160 per liter (Flexicolor) is 4, and 10 sheets of 4x5 and a little less for higher ISO films.

loccdor · Jun 11, 2024

Tom Taylor said:
Kodak says the maximum number of rolls of 135-36 Porta 160 per liter (Flexicolor) is 4, and 10 sheets of 4x5 and a little less for higher ISO films.

I use the 1 liter C-41 kits made by Unicolor/Tetenal sold under many names and have gone as far as 30 rolls and 8 months. Quality does start to suffer a bit towards the end, but not as much as you would expect, at least not for my non-RA4 printing workflow. I do similar with the E-6 kits and they're fine too. The estimates from the manufacturer are conservative. Many people just add more time to the development.

blee1996 · Jun 11, 2024

loccdor said:
Standard 1 liter C-41 kits can last about 6-8 months and do around 20 rolls before you see a drop off in quality. The manuals for them are very conservative estimates.

Works out to about $2 a roll for me.

I have similar experience with Bellini C41 kit: they can do a few rolls more than 16 rolls if you are careful with storage.

I store them in air-tight and light-tight aluminum lined wine bags, in the coolest part of house. I added wash between stop bath and bleach, and between bleach and fixer. The 1L working solution also lasts at least 6 months, but I do shoot more than 16 rolls of color during that time frame.

I use Paterson System 4 tanks (1L), and try to do batches of fully loaded tanks (3 rolls of 135, or 2 rolls of 120, or 6 sheets of 4x5). So I accumulate C41 rolls and sheets, and then do a batch processing. If you do one roll here and one roll there, the chemical might not keep as long.

koraks · Jun 11, 2024

Tom Taylor said:
Kodak says the maximum number of rolls of 135-36 Porta 160 per liter (Flexicolor) is 4

With the Fuji chemistry I use, I consider 6 rolls as conservative and 12 as perfectly feasible. It's been quite a while since I last calculated the cost in chemistry per roll; last time I did it, the outcome was halfway between "peanuts" and "chips", so I stopped bothering at that point.

loccdor · Jun 11, 2024

I store mine in opaque screw top plastic bottles made for photo chemicals. I also add extra wash steps between the chemicals. Sometimes I top the chemicals off with water if they get lower than the mouth of the bottle, but it does not seem very necessary. You definitely want to avoid any contamination but that isn't so hard to do. When I mix a new batch I use the same bottle for each chemical, don't put new developer in an old blix bottle. I like to do a lot of prewashes so residual photoflo is all gone before the development starts.

It's hard to go wrong - I accidentally spilled 10% of part of an E-6 solution the last time I was mixing up the kit (the Sodium Metabisulfate and Acetic Acid package for blix). I just blixed a few minutes longer and it was fine.

cmacd123 · Jun 11, 2024

years ago, I had all the chemicals to make a C41 or ECN2 developer as powders. I stuck the powder colour developing agent in the freezer.
the formulas I used were from a fellow by the name of Dale Nevile, who was in his 80s 30 years ago when I was doing this, and so the newsletter he published is is arcive material these days. the formuals were very simalar to the ones that koraks page mentions. Nevile did work out a "Teaspoon" version to avoid having to have an accurate scale, but these days electronic scales are inexpensive.

the advantage of the DYI method is that the powders will keep for years, and you can mix whatever quantity that make sense. the Bleach and fix really don't work out as easy as the developer.
Not sure how hard it would be to find the ingredients in the UK.

pentaxuser · Jun 11, 2024

Just bear in mind that the OP is based in the U.K. Prices and stockists in the U.K. make U.S. prices and stockist largely irrelevant as far as I can see, especially as he want to do it as cheaply as possible with what is a fairly low volume of films

For what it is worth, OP, have a look at the Bellini C41 kit sold by Nik and Trick Photography

pentaxuser

Rudeofus · Jun 11, 2024

Cerebum said:
So that is possible? Brilliant. That would do nicely. Which are the best kits for small mixes?

Since to my surprise this hasn't really been answered yet: any liquid C-41 kit will likely do well, but powder kits are a big problem if you want to mix less than the full quantity at once. If you can find a liquid kit with a final rinse, then I'd take that over one without final rinse.

Cerebum · Jun 12, 2024

Bellini is looking good

Now, bottles. I have some vacuum stoppers but I am not sure if they will fit. I have seen some tall 1l plastic bottles on eBay and some that are more jerry can shaped. A few people suggested they can get 9 or 10 months out of their mixture. Would I be better buying 1l bottles and using a kit that makes 1l at a time, or get smaller bottles for the smaller mix? Would 1l be preferable as I intend to use my Paterson kit for colour and steel tanks for mono? That being the case, if I am doing two rolls I will need at least 500ml

lamerko · Jun 12, 2024

Hobbyist retail chemistry comes at a price - that's a fact. Perhaps a bigger problem with chemistry is its storage - unfortunately, there are components that are not durable, and if you don't shoot too often - you probably won't reach the intended capacity.
You can try the following option: buy bleach from a commercial minilab kit (sold separately) - 5 or 10 liters of concentrate. It is very durable. For fix, you can take from the same set or just use what you have, even for black and white. The most problematic part is the developer. If you get minilab chemistry, it will come cheap per unit, but the quantity may be too large and you won't be able to use it. In that case, why not consider mixing your own developer? It's not difficult, and some (exotic) components can be turned off quite easily. Powder chemistry is very durable.

Is there a cheap way to do C41

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Is there a cheap way to do C41

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