Is some gear too cheap?

[xkaes]

Fortunately we can avoid the craziness completely -- for example, buy a MAXXUM 5 for $15 instead of a MAXXUM 7 for $150.

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

The nonsense pricing is all about what is or isn't "cool." You can buy an N80 for $20 because it isn't cool but a Nikon L35AF P&S sells for hundreds because it IS cool.

A certain popular movie featured an Argus C3 not long ago, so the prices on those shot up as a result (though it didn't last long). Certain Graflex flash models still sell for hundreds of dollars for the same reason to people who will never even use them as intended.

And, the craziness isn't just with photo gear. For example, there are portable cassette players from the 1970s-80s that now sell for thousands just because of popular movies that used them as props. And, there are many other examples of other types of vintage items.

There isn't much we can do about it. It's just human nuttiness.

This is probably the post in this thread that I agree the most with.

There are "influencers" out there on youtube that will get a "new-to-them" camera and use it to shoot 1-2 rolls and take some vercrappy images with it. Then post a video touting it is the latest and greatest gotta have, and the price on the used goods market creeps up because demand creeps up. I've watched this happen to countless cameras over the last few years. It's a standard cycle because they know that gear videos on youtube garner the most views compared to a good video about something like the Zone System or proper composition.

I'm not griping or being gate-keeper-ish about it. With a few exceptions, I already own, or have owned, most every film camera that I've wanted, and thanks to the influencers when I go to sell them I am making money on them after having them and using them for a few years. From a purely selfish standpoint, that's OK with me.

Jeremy

 

[Cholentpot]

New camera day for me. A buddy is giving me his Grandfathers camera and lenses. I have no clue what they are other than 'Nikon' and the cost is free. So, can't complain about cheap gear. I'll update what the camera and lenses are later on when I get 'em.

 

[Steve@f8]

Gear is never too cheap when I’m buying; conversely it’s far too cheap when I’m selling.
I wonder if it’s time to post my XPan WTB for $10?

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Gear is never too cheap when I’m buying; conversely it’s far too cheap when I’m selling.
I wonder if it’s time to post my XPan WTB for $10?

I'd recommend you just go all-in and ask for a GX617 with all 4 lenses for $10.

(and no, I'm not selling mine)

Jeremy

 

[SteveInConverse]

I don't think photography has ever been with a poor person's reach. When I was living on peanut butter sandwiches, there was no money for film or processing, much less printing.

Well you shoot as you can afford (film wise). I think that's why digital is so attractive....it's almost free after your initial investment in gear, memory cards etc. Most everyone has a computer these days. Once I start my own film developing, I'll save about $10-14 a roll as I can scan my own negatives.

 

[SteveInConverse]

I have a different take. I'm mostly interested in very early photo gear. The last thing I purchased was a Voigtlander lens made in 1841. The next newest purchase was a Lerebours et Secretans lens from 1848, and before that a stunning 200mm Velostigmat in a pristine Volute shutter c.1910. Cameras from the 1990s don't interest me at all. Really, I own only one camera made after 1960 and that's a Nikon F3T, which isn't cheap. All the stuff made after that tends to be plasticky and has a lot of electronics in it. I just don't know how durable it will be. OTOH, my 1841 & 1848 lenses will certainly be working like new in another 180 years if taken care of.


Kent in SD

Awesome!

 

[Cholentpot]

Well you shoot as you can afford (film wise). I think that's why digital is so attractive....it's almost free after your initial investment in gear, memory cards etc. Most everyone has a computer these days. Once I start my own film developing, I'll save about $10-14 a roll as I can scan my own negatives.

I'm managing to shoot at pennies per frame. I develop and scan myself and am not overly picky what kind of film I shoot which has lead me to some pretty good deals.

 

[Huss]

I'm managing to shoot at pennies per frame. I develop and scan myself and am not overly picky what kind of film I shoot which has lead me to some pretty good deals.

yah I'm not at all picky about film. My only differentiator is colour or B&W?

 

[ic-racer]

I get the impression Phototrio is more about image making than "cameras" though I personally like both. It does seem to me that Audiokarma (Vintage HiFi) and The Gear Page (Electric Guitar Gear) have more rants about pricing than here on Phototrio. When prices are low, the rant is that they can't make enough money flipping, but when prices are high, the rant is they cant get any "deals" to flip.

 

[Steven Lee]

Interesting responses here... One thing I would love to know is the composition of the film market. Who shoots film? Some days I think it's mostly older folks returning to their photography roots, and next week it feels like it's mostly high school kids and broke college students. Obviously it's a mix of both, but a higher granularity data would be great to look at.

Because knowing this information creates context for understanding everything else, like affordability or quality. Younger people do not have much money for obvious reasons, but they also do not care for the technical capabilities of the medium. They're tired and bored of technically perfect digital results, they want the faded 70s magazine look, they love color casts from expired rolls, they push and pull and cross-process for no reason, they don't chase sharpness and happy to use a coke bottle for a lens. Lomography's appeal is built on that.

If the pendulum indeed is swinging back to Pictorialism, I wonder of the needs of photrio members will be taken into account for new product development at Kodak, Ilford, Pentax and others.

 

[ant!]

Fortunately we can avoid the craziness completely -- for example, buy a MAXXUM 5 for $15 instead of a MAXXUM 7 for $150.

And I'd say the 7 for $150 is a bargain! Have no experience with the 5 though. Bought my 7 with the battery grip and a (lower end standard zoom) for CAD 100 a few years ago.

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Interesting responses here... One thing I would love to know is the composition of the film market. Who shoots film? Some days I think it's mostly older folks returning to their photography roots, and next week it feels like it's mostly high school kids and broke college students. Obviously it's a mix of both, but a higher granularity data would be great to look at.

Spend some time watching youtube videos and you'll see that the 20-somethings and 30-somethings are all in, however they tend to be the loudest demographic on youtube so that may skew the feeling. The older people, with a few exceptions that I like to watch, for the most part aren't on youtube.

I guess it all depends on which bubble you want to stick your head in.

Either way camera demand for certain models is going up along with the demand for film. In my line of work I have access to market analytics in many categories that include film sales and they have gone thru the roof in the past 36 months, both in terms of units sold and also retail prices.

Jeremy

 

[SteveInConverse]

I'm managing to shoot at pennies per frame. I develop and scan myself and am not overly picky what kind of film I shoot which has lead me to some pretty good deals.

Same here! Waiting on a chemical kit to arrive and then I can see how much Ive forgotten in that last 40 some years lol

 

[SteveInConverse]

yah I'm not at all picky about film. My only differentiator is colour or B&W?

Which one I shoot is solely dependent on 2 factors...what's in my stash, and to a lesser extent, the subject matter. I went to the zoo yesterday to shoot with a new lens (Sigma 100-400 6.3) and brought the F3HP with Ilford HP5 pushed to 800, Nikkor 50mm 1.8 pancake. I found quite a few shots that were just asking for BW treatment. I shot probably 200 images in digital on my 80D and about 20 with the Nikon. That's a good ratio for me

 

[pentaxuser]

Used stuff is too cheap if we want anyone apart from Leica to enter the market.

One a completely unrelated side-note, I'll be selling gear at super premium levels, and you should all thank me for it. I am trying to save the industry.

Good for you and to make things even better for the sake of the industry, can I take it that on the buying side you will now pay what you believe a camera is worth even if that is twice what the seller is asking

pentaxuser

 

[Cholentpot]

yah I'm not at all picky about film. My only differentiator is colour or B&W?

Just about, color is more difficult to get hold of so about 60% of my photography is b&w.

Same here! Waiting on a chemical kit to arrive and then I can see how much Ive forgotten in that last 40 some years lol

I push my color kits to 40 rolls. Yes, colors aren't very good towards the end but neither is the film.

 

[Pieter12]

It perplexes me that what seems to be mostly young folks are not concerned with the film they use, the quality of the gear (especially lenses) or much else, as long as it is film. Unless it is about randomness and experimentation--valid art techniques--it reeks of "shooting film" being a fad. One could easily get so many of the effects of expired film in a crappy camera with a handful of photoshop techniques.

 

[Huss]

It perplexes me that what seems to be mostly young folks are not concerned with the film they use, the quality of the gear (especially lenses) or much else, as long as it is film. Unless it is about randomness and experimentation--valid art techniques--it reeks of "shooting film" being a fad. One could easily get so many of the effects of expired film in a crappy camera with a handful of photoshop techniques.

Au contraire, young peeps are told it is Portra 400 or nothing. Why do you think Potra 400 is about the hardest film to get?

 

[Pieter12]

Au contraire, young peeps are told it is Portra 400 or nothing. Why do you think Potra 400 is about the hardest film to get?

Then why do I keep seeing posts about buying the cheapest film available, it doesn't matter what it is?

 

[Huss]

Then why do I keep seeing posts about buying the cheapest film available, it doesn't matter what it is?

That's us old farts here on Photrio, who are not swayed by the whims of influencers.

 

[Cholentpot]

Aaaand the bag is opened and contents revealed!

An EOS 10s with a Canon kit style lens and a Tamron of the same ilk. I'll test later with batteries. Second camera is a Pentax Super Program. The star of this show is a 50 1.4 on the front! Again, need to test with batteries. The Canon has a roll of film in it which I'll need to rescue.

Not bad for a cheap haul. Bag it came in is trash but I learned a trick or two and dug under the lining and behold I have found the missing Canon diopter.

 

[reddesert]

It perplexes me that what seems to be mostly young folks are not concerned with the film they use, the quality of the gear (especially lenses) or much else, as long as it is film. Unless it is about randomness and experimentation--valid art techniques--it reeks of "shooting film" being a fad. One could easily get so many of the effects of expired film in a crappy camera with a handful of photoshop techniques.

It might also be about process as well as end result. The film process of both taking the picture and getting the results back (delayed) is different, and maybe that's a lot of what they want. Some of what new film users desire seems to be a respite from the deluge of immediately available digital imagery. (I'm not intending to get into any arguments about one being better than the other, just that the mode of working is clearly different.)

 

[Helge]

Used gear is pure speculation. It’s not worth anything really.
Everything was payed off and absorbed decades ago. It’s not even old fashioned “supply and demand”. Much of it is bubbles and a uninformed frenzied/fevered marked.

To take the N80 as example, the reason they are not hot, is simply that they look like arse.
The 90s 00s was the nadir of industrial design (and anything popculture really).
Not that it’s terribly much better since then.

That, and also that they get sticky and they require a lens that costs five to ten times the bodies price, if you want a good prime and not a slow, big zoom.

Demand is fickle and shallow. Informed purchases are rare. Look at the popularity of the insanely priced Contax Ts.
They look nice and clean, that’s why they sell.
That is Pentax chance.
Good industrial design and a little something extra in the way of features.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Used gear is pure speculation. It’s not worth anything really.
Everything was payed off and absorbed decades ago. It’s not even old fashioned “supply and demand”. Much of it is bubbles and a uninformed frenzied/fevered marked.

To take the N80 as example, the reason they are not hot, is simply that they look like arse.
The 90s 00s was the nadir of industrial design (and anything popculture really).
Not that it’s terribly much better since then.

That, and also that they get sticky and they require a lens that costs five to ten times the bodies price, if you want a good prime and not a slow, big zoom.

Demand is fickle and shallow. Informed purchases are rare. Look at the popularity of the insanely priced Contax Ts.
They look nice and clean, that’s why they sell.
That is Pentax chance.
Good industrial design and a little something extra in the way of features.

Used gear is not speculation when one buys from places that will issue refunds, replace or repair such as KEH.