Is now the time to sell our film cameras?

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Down Under

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I seem to be playing the devil's advocate this week. By way of explaining this, I'm at home, five days before I depart for Southeast Asia on one of my extended photo shoots, with no household chores to be done before I go (ours is an entirely Sagittarian environment, two humans and three cats shari the same astrological sign, admittedly in the latter case as far as we know as our felines don't have birth certificates so we go by the personalities and traits, most definitely December fur babies they are) and little to do but read, write, plan my next two months' travel adventures and daydream.

Now to return to the point...

A dear friend long involved in photography has in the past year moved fully into digital (Nikons) and mostly given up shooting film. He isn't especially pro or con one or the other but says he did so for convenience and ease of creating his images. According to him, while he "sort of" misses his black-and-white film work, his digi results are as good as anything he did before, shooting is easier, he enjoys what little post-processing he does, and he rejoices at having escaped the tyranny of the darkroom with its fixer smells, endlessly long print washing and time dedicated to fine-spotting his enlargements. In fact he says he misses absolutely none of that, except the frisson of not knowing what his results will be on the spot when he shoots an image. also the fun of shooting with is Leica iiig (which he still does, in a limited way).

He believes that the entire photo industry is now firmly poised on a great abyss - the time for mass (and massive) changes when the masses of once-dedicated film shooters give up on analog and defect to the big D. Firmly convinced that this is about to happen, he insists that NOW is the time for us to offload our film cameras while we can still get quite decent prices for them.

I tend to both agree and disagree (another hybrid Sagittarian trait). Certainly film prices here in Australia are so ridiculously high as to put off most older photographers who traditionally keep to a sensible budget but now find the costs of film and darkroom supplies so inflated as to be off-putting. Many of my friends (who are in their 60s and 70s and on reduced incomes but still share my love of older cameras and traditional darkrooms) agree with this sad summing up. If anything destroys the future of film shooting here in the Antipodes, it will be the price of film.

I got around this to some extent by hoarding in the late 2009 but am now almost out of chemistry and 35mm films (my remaining stocks of refrigerated 120 films would put your average camera shop circa 2005 to shame). Having recently relocated from Tasmania to Melbourne, last week I ventured into my favorite retail photo center to buy fresh developer and fixer and other odd bits of darkroom chemistry, and all but lost bowel control in shock when I realized the high prices for anything.

Fortunately I do my own D&P, as the same retailer wants the price of a kidney for processing one roll of slide film and two fingers from one's hand for color negative. And New Zealand prices it seems are up to 50% higher. Ooch!

So my query. Do you believe that NOW is the time to sell our stores of unused cameras? Will prices for secondhand gear crash to rock-bottom in the near future? With environmental destruction, climate change and all the other awfuls the media tells us are waiting at the end of the street, will film become as rare (and as expensive as) dinosaurs' teeth in the not-too-distant distance?

in 2012 I had >50-60 cameras but I'm now down to a more sensible but still oversupply of <20.

My Nikkormats and Nikkor lenses are worth only cents on the dollar and prices have not improved since 2010. My Contax G equipment would sell at the same prices or a little better as in 2012. Rolleiflex (oddly, not Rolleicords, which I consider as as good as the 'flexes) prices in Oz have skyrocketed and some Ebay sellers want megabucks for well-worn 1950s Automats with dents and missing bits. German 6x6 folders still command reasonable prices on the same auction site.

I've noted that, as for most overpriced things on Ebay, not much seems to sell. Now and then a pigeon bits the poison hook but on the auction saes are stagnant.

Bearing in mind what I said about Satan's Advocacy, what are your thoughts about all this?
 

BrianShaw

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Not just devils sdvocate... but another Russian novel!

It seems to me, based on experience, that the best time to sell old stuff is always yesterday. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
 

jvo

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i think you oughta hold on for 5 years... if the prices drop, sell your rollei's to me! :tongue:

seriously though, if the film and darkroom is no longer any fun, and is a drudge - move on to digital. the vagaries of the market change so quickly and are unpredictable in the short run. make yourself happy. film is not gonna die soon, but it definitely will, with increasing prices along the way. it would have to increase very significantly, and quickly, for me to justify going digital and it be cost effective.

i also enjoy holding the print/paper in my hand, putting it up on the wall, looking at it, the changing it out. yes you can do it digitally, but it's a different experience and according to john paul caponigro, as much work as the darkroom to get the proper print! film fits my world right now.

i have a sneaky suspicion your friend will put his toe back in the film world....
 

Ko.Fe.

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People with some age are often moving to digital because it is more convinient and costs less.
If you are on this age, here is nothing wrong with it. Good photogs I have books from, by did this.

But couple of dozens films per year and couple of working film cameras will be relevant for at least on decade from now.
 

MattKing

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If one is making decisions about film use based on resale value, one is destined for disappointment.
Sell them now if you want to stop using them. Spend money on them now if you want to keep using them.
 

Theo Sulphate

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If digital is more convenient for you, equally appealing, and it makes financial sense, then why not?

Having and using my film cameras brings me far more enjoyment than any monetary gain I would get from selling them and using digital (of which I have two).
 

Sirius Glass

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Forget about resale prices. If you enjoy film and can process and print or have it done for you while meeting your needs, the keep using film cameras. I for one do do not care about selling off the cameras that I use, and I will continue enjoy using them. Occasionally I think about selling off the working cameras that I never use simply because someone should enjoy using them.
 

mshchem

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It's already too late. Unless you have some stash of perfect Leica stuff, collectable . If you are not going to use it get rid of it. I still have some pretty Nikon F, F2, F3 bodies and a few inexpensive, but pretty lenses . I'm keeping that because I like it. I rarely shoot 35mm. For that I have a D3, D5, and D850. I use these for candid shots, all the things that are a pain to do with film. I do still shoot Fujichrome with my D5. Medium and large format is still my true joy. That takes film, which just keeps going up.
I love it all. Digital has finally caught up to film, if you can afford a top notch DSLR. I bought a used Nikon 400mm f2.8 AF-I lens. It's F4 vintage, heavy as hell. I put a 1.4x t.c. on it and shoot photos of my cats . Indoors, e.f.l. of 550mm f4, wide open 500th of a second at ISO 100,000. That's fun, but so is a old Calumet 4x5 with a Ilex 8 inch lens.

If I want to get rid of stuff I find kids from the local colleges and practically give stuff away, they use it. I help them process film, but they scan , a few print.
 

baachitraka

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I am Sagi and relatively young. Neither I can afford good digital gear nor get a continuous darkroom supply.

May be I am in wrong age group or with wrong sign
 

TheFlyingCamera

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Use 'em if ya got 'em. Speculating in camera value is no better than taking your money to Las Vegas and putting it all on Red at the roulette table. I will keep on using the cameras that produce the results I want until either A: I'm dead, B: I no longer want the results they produce, or C: I can no longer find/afford the supplies to feed them. Then and only then will I switch to whatever is available to produce the results I want.
 

Kino

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"He believes that the entire photo industry is now firmly poised on a great abyss - the time for mass (and massive) changes when the masses of once-dedicated film shooters give up on analog and defect to the big D. Firmly convinced that this is about to happen, he insists that NOW is the time for us to offload our film cameras while we can still get quite decent prices for them."

I believe your friend is simply trying to self-justify his move to digital. Fine. Whatever...

However to project some mass rejection of film on Humanity as a whole is pretty preposterous. People don't return or stay with film for reasons of convenience, and the whole film vs digital debate has been beaten into a bloody pulp, so I really cannot see where this sea-change would suddenly occur.

Buy the tools you like to use and use them.

We will all be dead soon enough, so why worry and do what you like.
 

guangong

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If you no longer enjoy film, move on. Just throw your stuff overboard. If you enjoy photography more than digital capture, then keep it.
As for cost, even allowing for transportation costs, when I see prices for photo supplies mentioned by Australian members I just assume that your government adds a hefty tax, making things more expensive than need be.
I don’t believe that film will be revived to 1970 levels, but also don’t believe n will fall into an abyss. It will be around for a long time, although with fewer choices. For example, artists oil paints are still available, although some colors are no longer available because of politicians. Apparently, they are under impression that artists don’t use paint but eat it.
 

jim10219

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Now would be a good time to sell your film cameras if you wanted to make a decent return on them. Film cameras have gone up in price considerably over the past few years, mostly because of the younger kids getting into film. I don't know how much longer this trend will last. They could continue to go up, but once the market tips, I don't see them coming back for quite a long time (perhaps not in our lifetimes).

But no matter where the film market is, if you're not using your old film equipment and need the money to buy digital equipment or whatever, then selling it makes sense. Where the market it at doesn't mean much if you need the money now. But I find it hard to imagine that many people who kept film gear for this long actually did so with the intention of selling it when the market resurged.

One thing I learned a long time ago was don't buy hobby products or collectibles as an investment. They almost never come out in your favor. Stocks, bonds, and the usual stuff is what you buy if you're looking for investments. Hobbies are supposed to be money and time dumps.
 

4season

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I sense a lot of micro-trends in the prices of film gear, and as of early 2019, it seems to me that premium compacts (German names, made in Japan including Leica Minilux, Contax T3) are red-hot, Leica M bodies are doing well, as is Contax G, Hasselblad Xpan, Yashica T4, Ricoh GR and the Plaubel Makina 67. OTOH, prices for Leica screw mount have fallen, as have German Contax and Nikon rangefinder prices.

However, over the long haul I doubt that any have outperformed the stock market!
 

Vaughn

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As an artist, the OP does not make a lot of sense to me. To the hobby photographer it might.

But an artist makes work, owns equipment he/she needs, and buys what they must to make their art. Most artists do not own 20 or more cameras...we tend to buy supplies to make art, not collections...or if we did, they were sold many years ago to buy more film.

If one is to collect things, collect things one loves -- that way there is no need to ever sell.
 

Sirius Glass

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The OP's friend is correct. The OP should just ship all of their equipment to me.
 

Saganich

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Uncertainty is troubling for some. I don't think I would sell my film cameras even if there were no more film available. I would consider the purchase of a digital camera at that point.
 

Alex Varas

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What I can tell about here in Moscow & Peter is young people use film a lot, 90% of the clients buying film I see are 30 years old and below, of course here they use Zenit and M42 cameras, only the few 45 and above have Leica, if talking of 120 film, Hasselblad and Rolleiflex are the highest market for users and Mamiya RB/RZ 67 family are sold pretty cheap. Here branding very important.
 

removed account4

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Hi ozmoose
Another Sag here.. No idea if now is the best time to sell film equipment, but it is definately time to sell it if one isn't enjoying using it. It is a buyers market it seems, so if you were thinking that you were going to be socking away sacks of gold bars someplace, probably you won't get much gold ( maybe spray painted gold rocks ), unless you have some sort of rare camera or lens that is a collectors item.
Have a nice trip !
John
 

RalphLambrecht

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I seem to be playing the devil's advocate this week. By way of explaining this, I'm at home, five days before I depart for Southeast Asia on one of my extended photo shoots, with no household chores to be done before I go (ours is an entirely Sagittarian environment, two humans and three cats shari the same astrological sign, admittedly in the latter case as far as we know as our felines don't have birth certificates so we go by the personalities and traits, most definitely December fur babies they are) and little to do but read, write, plan my next two months' travel adventures and daydream.

Now to return to the point...

A dear friend long involved in photography has in the past year moved fully into digital (Nikons) and mostly given up shooting film. He isn't especially pro or con one or the other but says he did so for convenience and ease of creating his images. According to him, while he "sort of" misses his black-and-white film work, his digi results are as good as anything he did before, shooting is easier, he enjoys what little post-processing he does, and he rejoices at having escaped the tyranny of the darkroom with its fixer smells, endlessly long print washing and time dedicated to fine-spotting his enlargements. In fact he says he misses absolutely none of that, except the frisson of not knowing what his results will be on the spot when he shoots an image. also the fun of shooting with is Leica iiig (which he still does, in a limited way).

He believes that the entire photo industry is now firmly poised on a great abyss - the time for mass (and massive) changes when the masses of once-dedicated film shooters give up on analog and defect to the big D. Firmly convinced that this is about to happen, he insists that NOW is the time for us to offload our film cameras while we can still get quite decent prices for them.

I tend to both agree and disagree (another hybrid Sagittarian trait). Certainly film prices here in Australia are so ridiculously high as to put off most older photographers who traditionally keep to a sensible budget but now find the costs of film and darkroom supplies so inflated as to be off-putting. Many of my friends (who are in their 60s and 70s and on reduced incomes but still share my love of older cameras and traditional darkrooms) agree with this sad summing up. If anything destroys the future of film shooting here in the Antipodes, it will be the price of film.

I got around this to some extent by hoarding in the late 2009 but am now almost out of chemistry and 35mm films (my remaining stocks of refrigerated 120 films would put your average camera shop circa 2005 to shame). Having recently relocated from Tasmania to Melbourne, last week I ventured into my favorite retail photo center to buy fresh developer and fixer and other odd bits of darkroom chemistry, and all but lost bowel control in shock when I realized the high prices for anything.

Fortunately I do my own D&P, as the same retailer wants the price of a kidney for processing one roll of slide film and two fingers from one's hand for color negative. And New Zealand prices it seems are up to 50% higher. Ooch!

So my query. Do you believe that NOW is the time to sell our stores of unused cameras? Will prices for secondhand gear crash to rock-bottom in the near future? With environmental destruction, climate change and all the other awfuls the media tells us are waiting at the end of the street, will film become as rare (and as expensive as) dinosaurs' teeth in the not-too-distant distance?

in 2012 I had >50-60 cameras but I'm now down to a more sensible but still oversupply of <20.

My Nikkormats and Nikkor lenses are worth only cents on the dollar and prices have not improved since 2010. My Contax G equipment would sell at the same prices or a little better as in 2012. Rolleiflex (oddly, not Rolleicords, which I consider as as good as the 'flexes) prices in Oz have skyrocketed and some Ebay sellers want megabucks for well-worn 1950s Automats with dents and missing bits. German 6x6 folders still command reasonable prices on the same auction site.

I've noted that, as for most overpriced things on Ebay, not much seems to sell. Now and then a pigeon bits the poison hook but on the auction saes are stagnant.

Bearing in mind what I said about Satan's Advocacy, what are your thoughts about all this?
the only reason to shoot filom is liking the process. If you enjoy darkroom work (as I do), digital an't compete, but if you need or want quick quality results for DTP,digital is the way to go.
 
OP
OP

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Going by the numbers of film cameras being flogged off on this very site, now is the time! Sell while you can get decent money.

Keeping the best of your collection for yourself, of course.

As I and several dozen other photographers I know personally in Australia -along with many hundreds if not thousands of others I don't know, at photo fairs, online, on consignment with photo retail centers or even in a few cases in pawnshops - are now doing.

Is this a uniquely Antipodean phenomenon? Just another wet-finger estimate? Your thoughts will be appreciated. Also you may want to check Australian Ebay for camera bargains...

My penultimate post.
 
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Theo Sulphate

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...
My penultimate post.

Which means your "next to last" post. Maybe that's what you meant, but so many people use it instead of "ultimate" that it's a peeve of mine.

I know this only because I learned decades ago that in New Testament Greek (and maybe even modern Greek), one determines the stressed syllable by starting at the ultima, then moving back to the penult, but stress falls no further back than the antepenult.
 
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Sirius Glass

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Which means your "next to last" post. Maybe that's what you meant, but so many people use it instead of "ultimate" that it's a peeve of mine.

I know this only because I learned decades ago that in New Testament Greek (and maybe even modern Greek), one determines the stressed syllable by starting at the ultima, then moving back to the penult, but stress falls no further back than the antepenult.


It is important to take care of your pet peeves. Keep is exercised and well fed.
 
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