Is it sliver gelatin or gelatin silver?

[tkamiya]

Referring to our usual BW printing process, is it "silver gelatin" process or "gelatin silver" process? Which is correct??

I've seen it stated both ways.

Also, I typically see this notation when referring to traditionally processed BW prints but films are basically the same technology, correct???

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I don't think it really matters. Use whatever seems most natural to you.

The term silver gelatin is used to distinquish this process from other silver ones such as silver albumen and others. While non silver films do exist they are for very special purposes. So you really don't need to specify anything when referring to films.

 

[Bill Burk]

Hi Tkamiya,

Most of the time I see SG, so "silver gelatin" is probably the common term. It refers to the print, not the film. Probably because that is what the customer is buying. As Jerry said, film is silver in gelatin, but isn't described that way. Interestingly, you will get more information when it is important, for example when a print was made from a paper negative.

A question that pops into my head though... for archival processing, silver gelatin prints are usually toned. When the silver has been replaced with a more stable compound, why is it still called "silver gelatin"? Shouldn't they be silver selenide prints?

 

[anon12345]

Gelatin Silver sounds correct to me.

Gelatin Silver Bromide, Gelatin Silver Halide emulsion, Gelatin Silver Chloro-bromide, Gelatin Silver Iodide

:munch:

 

[Curt]

Yes it certainly is...

I call it Silver Gelatin.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Both versions are used. 'Silver gelatin' is a very common abbreviated term when the type of halide is not specifically mentioned. However, when being more specific, gelatin silver bromide, chloride or iodide, or simply gelatin silver halide are probably more appropriate.

 

[Dan Henderson]

I too have seen it both ways, and both appear to be accepted. I like silver gelatin myself. It flows off of my tongue more fluidly...quicksilvery, you might say.

 

[bdial]

What about color emulsions, especially in regard to prints? Chromogenic silver gelatin?

 

[erikg]

That would just be chromogenic print or c print. No silver in the actual print. BTW: Gelatin silver print is the current preferred term in American museum lexicon, but the other way has been used too. Digital prints seem to be causing the most confusion these days.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Or RA 4 dye coupler print for colour prints.

I have always referred to silver gelatin for my black and whites.
or tri toned , or duo toned or toned silver gelatin print.

That would just be chromogenic print or c print. No silver in the actual print. BTW: Gelatin silver print is the current preferred term in American museum lexicon, but the other way has been used too. Digital prints seem to be causing the most confusion these days.

 

[Steve Smith]

Silver - yes, sliver - no.


Steve.

 

[tkamiya]

I'm going to go with "Silver Gelatin".... sounds better that way.

 

[Clay2]

I see both terms used frequently to sell digital prints to the oh so trendy artsie people.
Sounds expensive when its really normal enlarging paper. Same thing with 'Giclee' print,
a French word meaning to squirt or spray, as in ink-jet printer , ha! They think it is
rare and expensive.

Best regards,

/Clay

 

[tkamiya]

Would anyone like to buy my plutonium giclee silver C gelatin chicken burrito print?

 

[erikg]

Only if the special sauce is on the side.

 

[artonpaper]

I mostly see gelatin silver. It makes sense since the silver is added to the gelatin, if you want to see it that way. But terms are used though. Film is the same technology, but, to the best of my knowledge, gelatin silver has long been the only FILM technology. (Other methods being done on metal, paper, or glass.) So there's been no need to differentiate. Not being a big fan of color photography, despite having taught all phases of it, who cares what they call it. ;-)

 

[Photo Engineer]

Actually, I never heard either term used until recent years, say 10 years ago or so. Before that it was just "photography" or "alternate photography" or the actual name of the alternate method. You see, there was no other method of capturing images before digital that really did the job but "photography" and the various alternative methods.

No one used Silver Gelatin or Gelatin Silver. So, "you guys" made it up to distinguish it from digital. In fact, neither term is used today in the industry.

PE

 

[Steve Smith]

Would anyone like to buy my plutonium giclee silver C gelatin chicken burrito print?

I'm going to start printing with Gelatin-Unobtanium..... if I can find any.


Steve.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Pandora has plenty Steve!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

In french slang giclee means a very specific squirt. 'Nough said

 

[anon12345]

Monthly abstract bulletin from the Kodak Research Laboratories, Vols 6-7 (1920)
". . . the first method making use of a single bath containing the dye as well as the bleaching agent, and the second, dyeing or tinting the gelatin silver image in one bath and then bleaching it . . . "

Scientific American monthly - Vol. 3 (1921)
"The gelatin-silver chlorobromide papers are very much more susceptible to such toning than the gelatin-silver bromide papers. "

Journal of the Society of Chemical Industry (1905)
"A gum arabic silver iodide emulsion is similarly found to be 00 to 100 times more sensitive to light than a gelatin silver iodide one."

My 2nd grade show-n-tell project, (1967)
"I helped my uncle build his portable darkroom. He makes silver gelatin prints with a red light. Here's one . . . see."

 

[Clay2]

Re 'Plutonium' Prints: Don't laugh, there is such a thing as Uranium Prints:

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Uranium/uranium.html

Best regards,

/Clay

 

[Bill Burk]

PE, I think you're right about it being new terminology. Looten's "on Photographic Enlarging and Print Quality" 1951 printing calls his examples prints, pictures or photographs.

 

[Barry S]

I've been seeing the terms silver gelatin and gelatin silver for as long as I've been looking at photographs in museums--they're certainly not new terms, and weren't created as a response to digital prints. It's been standard practice for museums to describe the print medium to distinguish between processes--salt print, albumen, platinum, bromoil, photogravure, etc.

 

[erikg]

It isn't really all that new. It goes to art world connoisseurship. At least since the 70's when photography become something of interest to serious collectors and museums precise terminology came into play. As for as museum collections this fits with the designations they use for other print making processes ( etching, lithograph etc). In the gallery world terms are looser and often have a marketing aspect. I remember platinum printers in the 70's making sure that potential collectors knew with out a doubt that they were getting something beyond a mere silver print. I think as long as one is honest, descriptive and not pretentious you are good.