Is Fomadon R09 the Same as Rodinal?

[StoneNYC]

The price of a high quality plastic bottle with childproof cap and manufactured to chemical standards along with the detectable mouldings ( for limited vision customers ) is not a 'couple of cents' ...not at all or anywhere near....

Glass would be great, fully recyclable and re-usable and you can get it in green and brown and all different colours and shapes.....

Trouble is... I do not want to buy a million at once and if I buy a lot less I do not want to put the price of my chemistry up by a dollar a bottle ....and I would also rather like to be able to ship it.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

What about a limited run of them like I mentioned? Just like a special limited edition glass bottles all with labels (or better yet with that ink that is permanent on the glass (and maybe some writing space). Sure it would cost more but would be really cool to have

 

[Roger Cole]

HiSoren

A bottle of a P-aminopheno/high pH developer needs to be treated like drain cleaner, locked medicine chest if you have kids. The cyclic hydro carbon is not nice as well even the painkiller.

The modern packages all should have a tamper proof seal (like they were orange juice) and a child proof cap. The seal is keeping the drain cleaner in.

Are we really such a bunch of cowards that we treat developer, or drain cleaner, like an IED or something? Sheesh - handle with due care and carry on. The tamper proof packaging on food is not to keep kids from eating the food, it's to keep sick criminals from adulterating something that is INTENDED to be consumed. Anyone intending to drink developer or drain cleaner can find another way to harm themselves if they wish.

Of course keep the air out for best storage. But the last thing I want is "tamper proof" packaging making my chems harder to open.

 

[Xmas]

The seals are to protect the shipping companies staff.

 

[StoneNYC]

What about a limited run of not bothering Ilford and Kodak with your ideas?

If no one else wanted the things I've asked for, none of them would have happened... I'm just the one not afraid to ask...

 

[Xmas]

too literary
http://charlesdickenspage.com/twist_more.html

 

[StoneNYC]

too literary
http://charlesdickenspage.com/twist_more.html

Please sir may I have some more?

 

[Xmas]

dont play blackjack

 

[dorff]

What about a limited run of them like I mentioned? Just like a special limited edition glass bottles all with labels (or better yet with that ink that is permanent on the glass (and maybe some writing space). Sure it would cost more but would be really cool to have

Not to belabour the point, but Schott Duran bottles fit your description nicely. The "ink" is actually fired-on ceramic. The bottles have volumetric indices and lots of space for you to write on, if you want. For what it's worth, I store my home-made Rodinal in 250 ml Schott Duran bottles, and they work fine for the purpose. The pouring ring is a super nice feature, as it allows drop-wise pouring without any liquid running down the side of the bottle. That is something you do not get with other wide-mouth glass bottles. Since SD bottles are not that expensive (probably around $4 for a 250 mL, around $8 for 1L), buy a few and they will last you for many years. While you are at it, get a few 1L Erlenmeyer flasks as well. They are the safest vessels to use for mixing or preparing solutions such as hydroxides, as one can swirl the liquid inside without any chance of spillage. In addition they can still be handled after being heated over open flame or on a hot plate, as long as the liquid isn't boiling. For fun, we serve fruit punch and cocktails at our parties in 2L Erlenmeyer flasks (not the same ones I use for chemistry, though!). It usually draws some reaction.

From the perspective of liability, you have to realise what are all the things that can go wrong from the moment a packaged hazardous liquid chemical leaves the manufacturer. It can leak during shipping or in the retail outlet. It can leak after the end user has bought it. A child could inadvertently open the bottle and ingest the chemical, or spill it to have skin/eye contact. The product itself could deteriorate due to oxidation, UV degradation etc. There are plenty considerations when deciding on a packaging solution. So I for one would not expect Ilford to do a limited run on a non-ideal packaging option when essentially what you are looking for already exists, only with a different label on it. Ilford has an excellent reputation - they wouldn't want to harm it with incidents like a child dropping a glass bottle and getting caustic burns.

 

[Xmas]

Not to belabour the point, but Schott Duran bottles fit your description nicely. The "ink" is actually fired-on ceramic. The bottles have volumetric indices and lots of space for you to write on, if you want. For what it's worth, I store my home-made Rodinal in 250 ml Schott Duran bottles, and they work fine for the purpose. The pouring ring is a super nice feature, as it allows drop-wise pouring without any liquid running down the side of the bottle. That is something you do not get with other wide-mouth glass bottles. Since SD bottles are not that expensive (probably around $4 for a 250 mL, around $8 for 1L), buy a few and they will last you for many years. While you are at it, get a few 1L Erlenmeyer flasks as well. They are the safest vessels to use for mixing or preparing solutions such as hydroxides, as one can swirl the liquid inside without any chance of spillage. In addition they can still be handled after being heated over open flame or on a hot plate, as long as the liquid isn't boiling. For fun, we serve fruit punch and cocktails at our parties in 2L Erlenmeyer flasks (not the same ones I use for chemistry, though!). It usually draws some reaction.

From the perspective of liability, you have to realise what are all the things that can go wrong from the moment a packaged hazardous liquid chemical leaves the manufacturer. It can leak during shipping or in the retail outlet. It can leak after the end user has bought it. A child could inadvertently open the bottle and ingest the chemical, or spill it to have skin/eye contact. The product itself could deteriorate due to oxidation, UV degradation etc. There are plenty considerations when deciding on a packaging solution. So I for one would not expect Ilford to do a limited run on a non-ideal packaging option when essentially what you are looking for already exists, only with a different label on it. Ilford has an excellent reputation - they wouldn't want to harm it with incidents like a child dropping a glass bottle and getting caustic burns.

I like the current R09 plastic bottles they don't break if you drop them. I've not had any R09 expire, all a web myth,... Cleaning up a R09 spill a hazard I don't need.
If you ship badly it is not reputation you lose when some one is hurt.

 

[dorff]

I like the current R09 plastic bottles they don't break if you drop them. I've not had any R09 expire, all a web myth,... Cleaning up a R09 spill a hazard I don't need.
If you ship badly it is not reputation you lose when some one is hurt.

I was referring to chemicals in general, not just Rodinal. From my experience, Rodinal stored in PET does not deteriorate (quickly, at least). I am sure that there are a few other plastics that will also be adequate. I do not know what the R09 bottle is made of. The nice thing about Rodinal is that if you start with fairly clear liquid, it is easy to see when oxidation is taking place due to the colour change. So fresh Rodinal is a good way to test a container to see how oxygen-tight it is.

Yes, there are very good reasons other than reputation not to kill or otherwise harm people. However, hurting someone is definitely damaging to reputation, and very costly to companies, that tend to look more at financial implications than the human side of things.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear All,

I am, and we are, always happy to listen to customer requests, cannot always do them but it's what we do...and we certainly do not have the exclusive 'right' to good or novel idea's related to our product families....

BUT..... if you look at chemistry it is the number one most complicated of our offerings to bring to market, the legislation alone is eye-watering, and as I am sure you can imagine the regulations are onerous.....and of course, all different, European, American, Australian, Swiss, European ( not part of the EC ) Japanese, then overlaid on that different regulations for products sold in a retail environment and those sold in a professional environment, It just goes on and on and on, and being a responsible company and ISO 9001 registered it all needs to be ( and should be ) strictly adhered to. So you end up with 17 languages, different packaging for different markets, different shipping requirements for different markets.

So to manage this, and all the REACH regulations and Health & Safety aspects of the literally hundreds of chemicals we use in the manufacture of our Photographic Film and Paper products we have one PHD Chemist who manages this exclusively in our business.

We have more prepared artwork and paperwork and change requests for chemistry than all our photographic products put together.

So if marketing ever want to look at 'specials' or additions to chemicals....you have more hurdles to climb than on a conventional product...

If I ever suggested a 'glass' packaging I would be taken into the car park and given a right good thrashing !

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

 

[Soeren]

HiSoren

A bottle of a P-aminopheno/high pH developer needs to be treated like drain cleaner, locked medicine chest if you have kids. The cyclic hydro carbon is not nice as well even the painkiller.

The modern packages all should have a tamper proof seal (like they were orange juice) and a child proof cap. The seal is keeping the drain cleaner in.

The normal plastic screw caps are good for 25 years part full bottle if the supplier has used any of the correct recipes, it does not need to say Rodinal, I used Azol for a long time, longest I kept Azol for was 10 years.

Decanting or filtering is not desirable only dripping into measuring flask over sink or bath is allowed.

There should not be much vapour with the plastic bottle but Id not keep it in a kitchen.

The w spelling is ok for vapour we are not fastidious.

So its not ok to store it in a Coca cola bottle? No sorry I couldn't resist, probably shouldn't even have brought up the idea.
Im a laboratory technician so I think Ive got the basics covered though sometimes they seem to be far back in my memory
Best regards

 

[StoneNYC]

Dear All,

I am, and we are, always happy to listen to customer requests, cannot always do them but it's what we do...and we certainly do not have the exclusive 'right' to good or novel idea's related to our product families....

BUT..... if you look at chemistry it is the number one most complicated of our offerings to bring to market, the legislation alone is eye-watering, and as I am sure you can imagine the regulations are onerous.....and of course, all different, European, American, Australian, Swiss, European ( not part of the EC ) Japanese, then overlaid on that different regulations for products sold in a retail environment and those sold in a professional environment, It just goes on and on and on, and being a responsible company and ISO 9001 registered it all needs to be ( and should be ) strictly adhered to. So you end up with 17 languages, different packaging for different markets, different shipping requirements for different markets.

So to manage this, and all the REACH regulations and Health & Safety aspects of the literally hundreds of chemicals we use in the manufacture of our Photographic Film and Paper products we have one PHD Chemist who manages this exclusively in our business.

We have more prepared artwork and paperwork and change requests for chemistry than all our photographic products put together.

So if marketing ever want to look at 'specials' or additions to chemicals....you have more hurdles to climb than on a conventional product...

If I ever suggested a 'glass' packaging I would be taken into the car park and given a right good thrashing !

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

Sell them as a set, empty glass bottle in a box with standard bottles you currently sell, but the glass has been (as the other poster said) glazed with porcelain with ILFORD FIXER and ILFORD STOP and ILFORD DEVELOPER (or whatever you would want.

That way you aren't dealing with the chemistry part and it's simply a packaging deal (cardboard design is easy... My step dad is a packaging salesman and so I see a lot of this packaging products together kind of thing).

But don't get yourself thrashed, please, we need you!

 

[MartinP]

The ideal glass bottles already exist. Just go to a chemistry-hardware supplier and buy, for example, the Schott bottles mentioned above. There is no need for Harman to go broke re-inventing the wheel!

 

[miha]

Maybe Ornano still sels in glass bottles? http://www.ilfotoamatore.it/schede/Foto_Art/PopUp/4338.jpg

 

[StoneNYC]

The ideal glass bottles already exist. Just go to a chemistry-hardware supplier and buy, for example, the Schott bottles mentioned above. There is no need for Harman to go broke re-inventing the wheel!

I know, I just thought it would be fun to have "official" glass ones like other older photogs have, like old Rodinal bottles with the original label, it's just neat and makes me excited. Anyway I'm young so having never had them, it means more to me I guess.

 

[cmacd123]

1) I will agree that the heat seal (at least on Ilford rapid Fixer) is hard to get off and the cap not seal well on the residue that is left. Perhaps a dome seal cap would work better, but I am not sure how it would work with the leak/tamper seal. For the most part I tend to use the Kodak developers (HC-110) so I don't have recent experience with the illford developers. The Ilford product is hard to find and seems more expensive, probably because of regulatory compliance.

2) The jobo bottles are/were of high quality, but where never inexpensive, and they still seem to be HDPE.

3) as much as I prefer the integrity of Glass bottles, I can understand the concerns about Fragility, not to mention extra weight and extra size - glass also typically requires cardboard inserts in the shipping carton to separate the bottles....

4) the package label is a serious problem. I recall that Edwal and Paterson chemicals became unavilable here in canada Shortly after the WHMIS (workplace hazardous material Information system) requirements came in. The Ilford rapid fixer I guy localy DOS have the WHMIS label, but the instructions under the outer label still call it "Ilford paper fixer" I have not tried to bring in a bottle from the states to see if that is different. {The Kodak chamicals I have got from the US also have the WHMIS labels with bilingual warnings}

5) Last time I checked the Photographers formualry Glass Bottles were sold by B&H. I useually just use Masking tape to make a label but it is not too hard to make a nice label on a laser printer. My local wine making store has replacement caps for the size I use, with the poly dome seals. I don't have children at home so the child proof cap is not an issue for my personal use.

 

[fotch]

Glass is class. If dropping is an issue, perhaps a strap for the bottle, sort of like the strap for a camera, could be invented.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Glass is class. If dropping is an issue, perhaps a strap for the bottle, sort of like the strap for a camera, could be invented.

You can buy shatter proof glass bottles. They have a pliable outer plastic coating which prevents the shards from separating.