Is film better for the truth?

[Alan Edward Klein]

My theory is that if someone asks you if you photoshopped your picture after looking at it, and you feel a funny thing in your stomach, then you photoshopped too much.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why is everyone so hung up on the truth and what's real? Is that all you aspire to achieve with your photography? Seems like such a low bar. Why bother?

So you believe in lying, disinformation and misleading people? I do not have any interest in such people and their work. Who needs or wants dishonestly. If it is not real have the stones to say so.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Whether displayed on paper or plastic film, a copy machine can be used to manipulate.

That is called propaganda, not photography. Wrong forum.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What about art? Or is art total propaganda too?

We are talking about photography, not are which is entirely made up.

 

[Sirius Glass]

So am I. Photography can be art.

Yes, but the subject what adding or removing significant objects from the photograph with announcing the major alterations.

 

[faberryman]

So you believe in lying, disinformation and misleading people? I do not have any interest in such people and their work. Who needs or wants dishonestly. If it is not real have the stones to say so.

This sounds a little overwrought coming from a guy who makes black and white photographs.

 

[MattKing]

Yes, but the subject what adding or removing significant objects from the photograph with announcing the major alterations.

No, that is your subject.
All photographs are entirely made up.
They are like fables - they are not the truth, however they may tell us the truth.
They are a communicative artifact (or set of artifacts - movies).
If you assume a photograph shows reality, you are vulnerable to being fooled, because at best two dimensional photographs only hint at reality.
Sometimes the hint is a really good one.
These are not clams. These are not colourful patterns. This is a digitized version of a two dimensional object (a film transparency) that hints on what clams are like.

 

[gone]

Andy Warhol made a lot of art on his copy machines. He mainly used it for proofing, you can make lots of drastic changes in the image w/ the touch of a button, and unlike your computer, you can look at them side by side in different types of lighting. I must have 500-1000 photocopies of my drawings and sketches. Very handy for quick resizing, piecing together as a triptych, all sorts of stuff.

I'm not going to discuss w/ anyone what was in the photo earlier, or what was removed. It's none of their business.

Editing: the act of adding, changing or removing material from a work in order to more concisely and powerfully get your message across. I made that up, but that's what we're talking about, editing photographs. Photos are no different than any other art form (unless you're documenting something), and no one can tell the artist/writer/photographer that any manner it's done in is any better or worse than any other method.

It's solely up to the creator of the work to decide what will go in and what will stay, but there is a place for an outside, disinterested editor. In the end, it's the creator's call, always. The buck stops there.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What about the controversy over Robert Capa's "The Falling Soldier."
Was this adding or removing truth?

I never met him.

 

[Sirius Glass]

No, that is your subject.
All photographs are entirely made up.
They are like fables - they are not the truth, however they may tell us the truth.
They are a communicative artifact (or set of artifacts - movies).
If you assume a photograph shows reality, you are vulnerable to being fooled, because at best two dimensional photographs only hint at reality.
Sometimes the hint is a really good one.
These are not clams. These are not colourful patterns. This is a digitized version of a two dimensional object (a film transparency) that hints on what clams are like.
View attachment 301665

Such as passing off the Helicopter Shark as an actual event? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Shark

 

[Ayne]

Some of the first Wartime Photographs from the Crimean and American Civil Wars were fabrications. Your rigid definition of photography only exists for you and lack of educations devoid of any of the history of Photography.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Some of the first Wartime Photographs from the Crimean and American Civil Wars were fabrications. Your rigid definition of photography only exists for you and lack of educations devoid of any of the history of Photography.

Eduacation? Have you heard of reductio ad absurdum? By your logic because slavery and human trafficking were done in the past, one is allowed and encouraged to do those now.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Some of the first Wartime Photographs from the Crimean and American Civil Wars were fabrications. Your rigid definition of photography only exists for you and lack of educations devoid of any of the history of Photography.

A wrong doesn't make a right, especially in journalism photography where most people expect the photographer to be depicting things as accurately as possible. Photos can be used as propaganda inciting people to riot or go to war. It's a very dangerous weapon in the hands of people, especially photographers, who have an agenda.

 

[Ayne]

Photography in the context of this online conversation has nothing to do with Slavery and Human Trafficking, you should be ashamed of yourself. You have nothing to say so you insult someone who suggests you are wrong. You must be delightful in "real life".

 

[Sirius Glass]

Photography in the context of this online conversation has nothing to do with Slavery and Human Trafficking, you should be ashamed of yourself. You have nothing to say so you insult someone who suggests you are wrong. You must be delightful in "real life".

I see that your claim to greater education does not include logic and logical arguments. Your statement shows that you cannot follow a classical well known logic.

 

[faberryman]

Such as passing off the Helicopter Shark as an actual event? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Shark
View attachment 301679

Is this where the guy in the helicopter says: "You're going to need a bigger helicopter."?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Is this where the helicopter pilot says: "You're going to need a bigger helicopter."?

Absolutely.

 

[Ayne]

I see that your claim to greater education does not include logic and logical arguments. Your statement shows that you cannot follow a classical well known logic.

No, my claim was that you are ignorant of the history of photography and you have poor manners. Items have been removed and added from photographic landscapes, portraits and so called "documentary" photographs from the beginning. Your arguments about "entirely made up" is what photography has always been.

 

[Sirius Glass]

No, my claim was that you are ignorant of the history of photography and you have poor manners. Items have been removed and added from photographic landscapes, portraits and so called "documentary" photographs from the beginning. Your arguments about "entirely made up" is what photography has always been.

I never denied that. I question the honestly of it.

 

[Don_ih]

There are far more duplicitous uses of straight photography, which neither adds nor removes anything from the shot, than any manipulated photo. A photograph is, in the main, whatever the most convincing argument says it is. People believe what they are told and interpret what they see accordingly. This thread has dissolved into a pile of nonsense.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There are far more duplicitous uses of straight photography, which neither adds nor removes anything from the shot, than any manipulated photo. A photograph is, in the main, whatever the most convincing argument says it is. People believe what they are told and interpret what they see accordingly. This thread has dissolved into a pile of nonsense.

So avoid the controversy by honestly labeling photographs. Some people insist at prints be labeled as silver chemical prints or inkjets or film or digital. One should be able to honestly talk about their work. Is that so hard?

 

[Sirius Glass]

No, that is your subject.
All photographs are entirely made up.
They are like fables - they are not the truth, however they may tell us the truth.
They are a communicative artifact (or set of artifacts - movies).
If you assume a photograph shows reality, you are vulnerable to being fooled, because at best two dimensional photographs only hint at reality.
Sometimes the hint is a really good one.
These are not clams. These are not colourful patterns. This is a digitized version of a two dimensional object (a film transparency) that hints on what clams are like.
View attachment 301665

You are confusing the composition with the original image on film or the chip memory.

 

[Mike Lopez]

Eduacation? Have you heard of reductio ad absurdum? By your logic because slavery and human trafficking were done in the past, one is allowed and encouraged to do those now.

Don and others addressed this tired old tripe in this very thread several pages back, to which you had no response. Ho-hum.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Don and others addressed this tired old tripe in this very thread several pages back, to which you had no response. Ho-hum.

It is not tripe. It is a response to your views that you do not like. What is wrong with labeling work with the truth? Why does truth hurt so much?

 

[Mike Lopez]

No, my claim was that you are ignorant of the history of photography and you have poor manners. Items have been removed and added from photographic landscapes, portraits and so called "documentary" photographs from the beginning. Your arguments about "entirely made up" is what photography has always been.

Yep. Ask him about Ansel Adams removing the “LP” from the hill in his picture of Lone Pine and then wait for the words “significant objects” to follow in the reply.