Raghu Kuvempunagar
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10 drops for 500ml water? I hardly use 2 drops. It takes very little.
I'll also mention that I've never had issues using the dev reel in the PhotoFlo bath, but I always soak them in hot water after developing, and I keep my tap water hotter than most (135F)
You are welcome Andrew. Our gracious hosts at the Darkroom Group swear by it!
They even have densitometer data confirming its advantage over sloppily mixed, over concentrated stuff!
(produced as part of a calibration routine for a film recorder).
On the subject of the thread, and for the chemists/water scientists here, I was musing on a question:
Does the presence of minerals or other things found in variable quality tap water affect the surface tension behavior of that water?
Because the use of PhotoFlo and the like is all about surface tension.
Matt, by any chance have you used the film apron as well?
I doubt you have evidence for this statement. I believe this is one of those old wives tales started by a marketing agent at Kodak. MY ENTIRE POINT was to not soak your film in any drying aid, but rather to run it through once fairly briskly so it stays on the surface of the film where it can do what it needs to.And I would never, ever use Palmolive or any other dishwasher detergent, because even the scent free stuff has ingredients that would be bad for gelatin.
I doubt you have evidence for this statement.
The link is broken, Matt. I'll check out his posts.I am prepared to rely on the advice shared right here to this effect by the late (and much missed) Ron Mowrey, who posted on APUG/Photrio as @Photo Engineer, and who was a chemical engineer who retired from Eastman Kodak after a distinguished career which included, amongst other things, being one of the named parties on the K14 Kodachrome patent.
Household cleaners are designed to do many things, including dispersing greases. They often make use of enzymes to assist with their assigned tasks. They also are designed to be "gentle" on hands.
PhotoFlo was designed to be nothing more than a surfactant that was not deleterious for film.
Here is a search listing Ron's more than 29,000 posts on this site: https://www.photrio.com/forum/search/403/
I started out doing the see-saw maneuver in the dark - yech.
I then went to using the Kodacraft tanks and aprons with 120 film and, for a short while, 35mm film.
They worked well, and were very helpful when it came to dealing with the fact that I lack dexterity and range of motion in my right hand.
Unfortunately, I have never located any of the aprons sized for the wider 116/616 film. They were made, and they would be usable with short lengths of 70mm film, but they aren't easy to find.
I have a Yankee ratcheting plastic reel tank that is adjustable for 616, but it isn't great when you try to load extremely curled, vintage 616 film on to them. The aprons are absolutely ideal for that - especially for 1.5 handed me.
I am prepared to rely on the advice shared right here to this effect by the late (and much missed) Ron Mowrey...
PhotoFlo was designed to be nothing more than a surfactant that was not deleterious for film.
Here is a search listing Ron's more than 29,000 posts on this site: https://www.photrio.com/forum/search/403/
Matt, I didn't think you had any data to prove that, just opinions. Those opinions clearly represent a commercial interest, and are directed to high volume commercial users. I am a low volume home darkroom person, who has the opposite use case. If I was a high volume commercial user, I would use PhotoFlo or more likely some similar product. I've only seen it packaged in 16oz size, which is more than ten times what I could ever use in my lifetime. I've seen the concentrate go bad in the bottle at least a half dozen times, so I throw out 15.5oz of moldy sludge. I'm concerned by the environmental impact of all those full containers. Today, we likely need an environmental impact study to dispose of this since used photochemicals are probably considered hazardous waste. Oh, wait...dish detergent isn't hazardous waste. Although it wasn't designed for mold culturing, it also was not designed for low volume home use.
I did some searching here yesterday and found several times where an authority told people who were clearly in my category not to use dish detergent. One particular person was just starting out and trying to simplify their initial experimenting with cafenol home film developing on the cheap and they were shot down for thinking about using dish detergent. This is sad. Authorities here have also educated beginners to not even think about using Tween 20, a well known commercial surfactant that IS available in small quantities as a film drying aid. They already bought some for alt. processes. But no, they gotta spend more money according to the experts here.
I believe understanding things is important. For low volume users, dish detergent is a viable re-purposed home product that is a good film drying aid when used properly. It contains a surfactant, a mild detergent similar to those in shampoo like sodium lauryl sulfate and the like, glycerine a well known polyol often used in photochemestry, water and other beneficial ingredients. Don' soak your film in it.
Authorities here have also educated beginners to not even think about using Tween 20, a well known commercial surfactant that IS available in small quantities as a film drying aid.
Matt, I didn't think you had any data to prove that, just opinions. Those opinions clearly represent a commercial interest, and are directed to high volume commercial users. I
Matt, I didn't think you had any data to prove that, just opinions. Those opinions clearly represent a commercial interest, and are directed to high volume commercial users. I am a low volume home darkroom person, who has the opposite use case. If I was a high volume commercial user, I would use PhotoFlo or more likely some similar product. I've only seen it packaged in 16oz size, which is more than ten times what I could ever use in my lifetime. I've seen the concentrate go bad in the bottle at least a half dozen times, so I throw out 15.5oz of moldy sludge. I'm concerned by the environmental impact of all those full containers. Today, we likely need an environmental impact study to dispose of this since used photochemicals are probably considered hazardous waste. Oh, wait...dish detergent isn't hazardous waste. Although it wasn't designed for mold culturing, it also was not designed for low volume home use.
I did some searching here yesterday and found several times where an authority told people who were clearly in my category not to use dish detergent. One particular person was just starting out and trying to simplify their initial experimenting with cafenol home film developing on the cheap and they were shot down for thinking about using dish detergent. This is sad. Authorities here have also educated beginners to not even think about using Tween 20, a well known commercial surfactant that IS available in small quantities as a film drying aid. They already bought some for alt. processes. But no, they gotta spend more money according to the experts here.
I believe understanding things is important. For low volume users, dish detergent is a viable re-purposed home product that is a good film drying aid when used properly. It contains a surfactant, a mild detergent similar to those in shampoo like sodium lauryl sulfate and the like, glycerine a well known polyol often used in photochemestry, water and other beneficial ingredients. Don' soak your film in it.
DJ, I already was very specific. The brand doesn't matter, get the one that has the fewest additives. This will be a clear version, not with color tints, and be the one that has the most claims on environmental friendliness. I happen to use Palmolive "Pure and Clear" that claims to have "no unnecessary ingredients". I thought it was fragrance free, but notice it has Lanvender and Eucalyptus. The ingredients are not listed. I store it carefully in the laundry room on the shelf over the bathroom sink right next my darkroom area in the corner. I tried to upload a 0.985 mb jpeg, but this board doesn't take it, saying its too big. Resized it twice. I give up on that.If you are going to suggest something, be specific...
FWIW, the internet tells me that the Palmolive dish washing detergent contains at least the following:
Common Ingredients
- Water/Eau: The base of the soap.
- Sodium Laureth Sulfate (SLES): A surfactant (cleaning agent) that creates suds and lifts grease.
- Lauramidopropyl Betaine: A milder surfactant, often derived from coconut, that boosts foam and cleans.
- Lactic Acid: Helps adjust pH and can have mild cleaning properties.
- Poloxamer 124: A foam stabilizer and cleaning booster.
Thank you very much.I'm not going to disagree with anything you write, but just for education sake... when Ron (PE) posted in this forum he was not representing Kodak but was a Kodak retiree. His interactions here were very informative because of his unique background and tended to be very focused on the specific needs/concerns of the forum members who, like you, tend to be low-volume users.
BTW, welcome to Photrio.
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