Is arista really a learning film?

[Dali]

I actually enjoy using Foma 100 at times, basically because I feel it gives a "vintage" look, but understand why others would no like it.

The original comment was not about liking or not the results but to question the ability to get a decent image from it. If ARISTA.EDU (aka FOMAPAN) films were that bad, it would be a known fact by now. Is the alleged issue coming from the film or the user? Draw your own conclusion...

 

[Paul Howell]

In college (the mid 60s) we used TriX as our learning film. My college offered Photojournalism as a minor and at the time did LaVern not offer a degree in photography, as 400 speed films was the norm for most press work we started with a 400 ASA film. The lead instructor hated Kodak, not because that was anything wrong with Kodak's products, he hated their business practices. The only exception was TriX, not HP4 or GAF 500 came close to TriX. All of our chemistry and paper was GAF or Dupont. When I taught at a community college I stated everyone on Plus X. Other instructors started with a variety of different films, which I thought just confused the students. Once they mastered PlusX I had them chose a different brand that they to master.

 

[GregY]

The original comment was not about liking or not the results but to question the ability to get a decent image from it. If ARISTA.EDU (aka FOMAPAN) films were that bad, it would be a known fact by now. Is the alleged issue coming from the film or the user? Draw your own conclusion...

Agreed....

 

[weasel]

A couple years ago I retired, and having new found time wanted to get back to shooting 4x5, which I had ignored for a long time. Knowing I was going to make a lot of stupid handling mistakes, I bought several hundred sheets of arista/foma 200 because it was a bit cheaper than Ilford. My goal was to end up standardizing on hp5+, which I love in 35, for all my formats to keep things simple, once I got back in the groove and quit making stupid mistakes. Problem is, after learning how to use the film, exposure, development etc, I get really nice prints out of it. I have had no strange qc issues. My only real gripe about the film is the horrible reciprocity, something I under estimated being a problem with for the shooting I do. Im still going to end up standardizing on HP5+, but if someone told me I had to stick with foma 200 it would not break my heart.

 

[runswithsizzers]

How many places still even teach film photography other than workshops? Heck, even the biggest private digital photography career school in this area went broke during the pandemic. And this is the world epicenter of tech careers. Amazon sent 75% of Bookstores into extinction, even around campuses. And what bookstore ever sold film? You must be joking.

My home town is a medium-sized city in the middle of the USA, and we have a state university that still has an active photography department. The university offers more analog classes than digital. Students are able to buy most of the film, paper, chemicals, etc. they need from the university store.

One of the professors is a personal friend of mine, and she says, when deciding what supplies to use, availablility is a big concern -- as much, or more so, than cost. Last year, for B&W they switched from Ilford HP5+ to Arista.edu, but the color film classes had to use whatever odds and ends they could find due to global supply problems.

 

[GregY]

A couple years ago I retired, and having new found time wanted to get back to shooting 4x5, which I had ignored for a long time. Knowing I was going to make a lot of stupid handling mistakes, I bought several hundred sheets of arista/foma 200 because it was a bit cheaper than Ilford. My goal was to end up standardizing on hp5+, which I love in 35, for all my formats to keep things simple, once I got back in the groove and quit making stupid mistakes. Problem is, after learning how to use the film, exposure, development etc, I get really nice prints out of it. I have had no strange qc issues. My only real gripe about the film is the horrible reciprocity, something I under estimated being a problem with for the shooting I do. Im still going to end up standardizing on HP5+, but if someone told me I had to stick with foma 200 it would not break my heart.

If reciprocity is one of your big concerns, either TMY-2 or Fuji Acros offer response to long expoosures.

 

[abruzzi]

If reciprocity is one of your big concerns, either TMY-2 or Fuji Acros offer response to long expoosures.

Unfortunately Acros II is not available in 4x5, but fortunately TMX is and is better than most films.

 

[GregY]

Unfortunately Acros II is not available in 4x5, but fortunately TMX is and is better than most films.

Yes. TMX is a marvellous film in all respects!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have found it hard to teach film anything!

 

[DREW WILEY]

All films come with a learning curve. Just depends what school you choose. I'd prefer it not to be the "school of hard knocks". But heck, how most of us learned to ride a bicycle involved scrapes and bruises too.

 

[Agulliver]

YMMV geographically but the town where I live has a college and a university (separate concepts here offering different levels of education) which both restarted their darkroom/film photography courses in 2021 due to high demand from young students in their teens and very early twenties. I now regularly see young people, especially now young women, around town obviously doing assignments with 70s Pentax SLRs and the odd Nikon. The local camera shop which does far more analogue business than digital has all but sold out of used entry level 35mm SLRs and the more sophisticated P&S film cameras. So yes, "proper" educational establishments are resuming film as part of their photography courses....having previously dropped it sometime in the last 10-20 years.

Back to the OP's messages. Do I recall they mentioned getting very few images at all from the Fomapan and Shanghai films they tried? This suggests far more than struggling with any unique properties of Fomapan (or Shanghai).

Is Arista/Foma a good learning film? Yes, in the sense that it's cheap so your inevitable beginners mistakes cost less. However it's also less forgiving in terms of exposure and development compared to Ilford or Kodak B&W films. But yes, Fomapan is fine to learn on. Though at this juncture, while I shoot a lot of Fomapan myself, I'd recommend Kentmere to a beginner.

 

[Tim Stapp]

Here is my favorite shot from Arisa EDU 100 on 135 film done in 2017 in downtown Howard City, Michigan:

 

[GregY]

Here is my favorite shot from Arisa EDU 100 on 135 film done in 2017 in downtown Howard City, Michigan: View attachment 336036

Lovely photo and rendering. Nothing wrong with that!

 

[John Wiegerink]

Here is my favorite shot from Arisa EDU 100 on 135 film done in 2017 in downtown Howard City, Michigan: View attachment 336036

Tim,
Is that at the old Hotel? That Hotel is a Landmark. I've been in it more than once in the 60's, but it was mainly a bar then. I still go by it when I go to our cottage taking Old 31. Is the old Olsen knife company still in existence?
All this talk about Arista films is good. I find nothing bad about Arista 100 and have 15 rolls of 120 on hand. I'm having a shootout between my Kodak Medalist II and my Kodak Monitor 620. They are both loaded with Arista 100, but to be honest, HP5+ is my main film as of now. One thing is for sure and that's Arista is better than Shanghai GP3 as of now anyway. How do you like our Michigan weather? 86 degrees one day and snow and freezing temps the next. Oh well, so is the life of a Michigander!

 

[koraks]

One thing is for sure and that's Arista is better than Shanghai GP3 as of now anyway.

The Shanghai is the only film I've ever run into serious problems with dichroic fog with. I think it may have something to do with the interleaving sheets they use to package the sheet film with. A fresh box seems to work OK, but as the film ages, really weird fogging issues at the surface of the emulsion start to take place.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

It's a "learning" film insomuch as it is less expensive than most of its competitors. But that's not to say it only has value to beginners. I love it for my own personal work - it makes shooting 8x10 still affordable. It also has a number of very desirable characteristics for alternative process printers - you can push the contrast up very high with it without blowing out highlight details.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Here is my favorite shot from Arisa EDU 100 on 135 film done in 2017 in downtown Howard City, Michigan: View attachment 336036

I used to drive one of those! I had a 1962 Nash Metropolitan in high school. It was supposed to be a father/son restoration project, but that never happened. I still loved that car. If I had a garage to park it in, I would get one again.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

If reciprocity is one of your big concerns, either TMY-2 or Fuji Acros offer response to long expoosures.

TMX has better reciprocity than TMY. TMY will give shorter exposures to a point, but once you're out past say 1 minute metered time, the reciprocity for TMX makes it a faster film.

I don't know if they resolved the issue, but I remember back in the day there was a real problem with TMX for alternative process shooters because Kodak had put a UV-blocking coating on the film (I think they said the reason for it was to improve print quality in automated printing systems). Whatever the reason for it, it caused havoc for alt-process stuff because those depend on UV light.

 

[GregY]

TMX has better reciprocity than TMY. TMY will give shorter exposures to a point, but once you're out past say 1 minute metered time, the reciprocity for TMX makes it a faster film.

I don't know if they resolved the issue, but I remember back in the day there was a real problem with TMX for alternative process shooters because Kodak had put a UV-blocking coating on the film (I think they said the reason for it was to improve print quality in automated printing systems). Whatever the reason for it, it caused havoc for alt-process stuff because those depend on UV light.

TFC, I mentioned TMY-2 because I had experience with it (it was my go-to film in 5x7). I now use TMX in 35mm, but I really like FP4+ tonality so it's my standard in medium format. I don't do any alt process, just silver gelatin, and some larger contact prints on Azo.

 

[koraks]

back in the day there was a real problem with TMX for alternative process shooters because Kodak had put a UV-blocking coating on the film

It's apparently not so much a coating, but a compound embedded into the base material itself - or so I'd heard. I don't think this has ever changed. TMX is still to be avoided for UV-sensitive processes.

 

[Tim Stapp]

Tim,
Is that at the old Hotel? That Hotel is a Landmark. I've been in it more than once in the 60's, but it was mainly a bar then. I still go by it when I go to our cottage taking Old 31. Is the old Olsen knife company still in existence?
All this talk about Arista films is good. I find nothing bad about Arista 100 and have 15 rolls of 120 on hand. I'm having a shootout between my Kodak Medalist II and my Kodak Monitor 620. They are both loaded with Arista 100, but to be honest, HP5+ is my main film as of now. One thing is for sure and that's Arista is better than Shanghai GP3 as of now anyway. How do you like our Michigan weather? 86 degrees one day and snow and freezing temps the next. Oh well, so is the life of a Michigander!

No, the old Hotel is to my right a block. It's now a nice restaurant. They moved the original bar back to it's original location.

The car and bicycle are parked in front of what was Tasker's Drug Store. The building in the background were at one time the lawyer's office, the barber shop and storage for Moore's Five and Dime across the street.

I lived in Howard City for 60 of my 66 years.

 

[John Wiegerink]

No, the old Hotel is to my right a block. It's now a nice restaurant. They moved the original bar back to it's original location.

The car and bicycle are parked in front of what was Tasker's Drug Store. The building in the background were at one time the lawyer's office, the barber shop and storage for Moore's Five and Dime across the street.

I lived in Howard City for 60 of my 66 years.

Okay, I got the layout now. Funny, we had a Tasker's Drug Store in Coopersville, MI. where I grew up. Wonder if they were related at all? Our Tasker's Drug Store is still going, but all the drug store Tasker's are dead and gone now and someone else runs it now. Maybe I'll see you at Burley Park now that Covid-19 is now pretty well over.

 

[shead]

I have used a good amount of Arista Edu 100 and 400 in 35mm and 120. The results are so-so, and it is not the best film. I think of products targeting students as sub-par, and they actually hinder the learning process. For example, I am also a watercolor painter and student grade paint is actually quite miserable to use - it is cheap because they skimp on the pigment, it breaks up too quickly and doesn't have the brilliance a good paint has. How can you learn when you have poorly made materials to work with? I learned as a painter quickly and joyfully when I upgraded my paint. I would imagine for photography, after learning the basic darkroom mechanics with cheap film (like loading a spool, developing film, getting that first image to appear) a student would want to use the best film they could afford.

 

[Dali]

The "best film" does not exist. The best film / developer combination, maybe, and even for that, you have to take into account the way you develop it and to know the final result (i.e. negative) to expect.

 

[Paul Howell]

Arista EDU is rebranded Foma. Foma does not market their films as student film. Freestyle markets Artis EDU to schools and budget minded shooter based on price not performance. I shoot Tmax 100 and 400 when it matters and Foma as my shoot around film. 20 years or so ago Foma did make a Tgrain film with a box speed of 800, I shoot a lot of it when I could get it, it was sold by Ultrafine with a box speed of 400. Foma is a fine film, may not be what some like, but still a very film, issues in 120 and sheet film, Foma does does not market their films as students film, F. Although with quality control have been reported, I have not any issues, hope my luck continues.