Intermediate large format questions/photography misadventures

[Bronson Dugnutt]

One last update on the SMC 300 front group, this time with a 6x8 roll back on the Speed Graphic. I adjusted the bellows to approximately infinity focus and exposed via the viewfinder and focal plane shutter @ 1/1000s. The results are essentially what I had expected -- soft and full of aberrations. Most frames were still overexposed by 1-2 stops.



I've since experimented with some 3D printed waterhouse stops attached directly to the rear element. It does increase sharpness but also greatly reduces the size of the image circle due to mechanical vignette. The original lens design includes a negative optical element behind the aperture which serves to increase the effective focal length as well as increase the size of the resulting image circle. By puttying elements of various strength to the back of the waterhouse stop you can control the focal length and coverage -- allowing a sort of a super-fiddly variable zoom. Not a convenient lens by any means but a fun exercise in understanding the optics at play.

Now back to your regularly scheduled large format misadventures!

 

[MTGseattle]

You've found the long method to reproduce "Holga-ness" with large format. The 2 images above have a painterly quality to them.

 

[MTGseattle]

In not so earth-shaking news, I may have found an overlooked 3-way pan/tilt tripod head suitable for 8x10. I should receive mine next week. I will post up full details when I get it in my hands.
Head weight= 1710 grams (3.76 pounds)
Load capacity = 12 kilograms (26.45 pounds)

If it works well, my Gitzo 1570M will be in the classifieds shortly.

 

[MTGseattle]

I'm starting to get a reasonably big pile of gear built up that doesn't see regular use. I briefly looked at a couple of the threads regarding dry cabinets for equipment (usually lenses), and there's quite a bit of back and forth.
These days, almost any home center/diy type place sells a variety of gasketed containers. No need to shell out the cash for Pelican just for storage.

I happened to already own one of these, and thought I would post a link here. They have multiple sizes, there's no mess, and initial price is modest (depending upon size)

Space Dryer: SD106 | H2 Out | H2 Out

h2out.com

 

[MTGseattle]

Tripod head news:

The new one is a Slik SH-909
It looks like I loaded them sideways. Oops.
Anyway, I think it will work.
The small knob controls the panning function.
With the “normal” height (vs the low profile Gitzo models), snd having only 2 lock bars/handles, there’s no interference with the legs.
The lick
Lever on my quick release clears just barely.
I think it will work.

 

[MTGseattle]

I think I've finally come around to an idea that is frequently stated here and on the large Format forum; I need to abandon my quest for 1 quick release system to rule them all. 8x10 will be mounted to only the tripod head or sometimes only the legs.

4x5 and smaller formats will get qr stuff and likely a different head. It's become clear to me that carrying any other "system" along with the 8x10 causes a diminishing effect to both, and is a pain to carry/manage anyway.

This is the qr and plate system I have on my ball head; The bottom of the unit has a slot that corresponds with 2 "ears" on the ball head stem which together make it impossible for the release system to spin. I like this. The caveat is that while Giottos calls this an "Arca-style," the budget arca plates do not work well.

Giottos MH-658 Quick Release Assembly (Arca-Type) with MH-648 Plate | eBay

This system follows the industry-standard Arca Swiss design, and is also compatible with quick release components from other manufacturers (e.g. Arca-Swiss, Benro, Graf/Studioball, Wimberley, and many many others.).

www.ebay.com

The one curiosity I have is whether a shorter plate will lock into this mount properly.

I have a backlog of about 12 sheets of 8x10 to process.

 

[abruzzi]

The caveat is that while Giottos calls this an "Arca-style," the budget arca plates do not work well.

I've found a lot of incompatibility between one arca-type piece and another. Especially no-name type stuff. Today my clamps are a number of brands that are well known--Kirk, FLM, RRS, and Arca Swiss, my plates are a little more variable but I use Arca Swiss for most things (and the A-S mono rail doesn't even need a QR plate), but FLM, Manfrotto, and Giottos as well.

 

[MTGseattle]

Here's another question: I've somehow acquired quite the random selection of film stocks. My hope is that I can also land on a developer that works reasonably well for all of them. I'm not looking for a magic bullet. I'm currently trying to finish of my DD-X which will force me to switch.
due to the above, I find myself looking up film/dev combos to get developing times quite a bit. I'm sick of doing this. (I have some stuff written down and/or printed relating to my common items)
Is there a decent written source that has a lot of them in it? The Film developing cookbook comes to mind. Should I purchase the newest version of that? Is there something better?

As a secondary question, how much truth is there to the seemingly common idea that the 2 common Rodinal dilutions (1-25 and 1-50) yield a fairly pronounced difference in contrast? Is this recent youtube driven hyperbole or is this idea closer to fact?

 

[AnselMortensen]

I have standardized on Rodinal for all my B/W film development for the last 18 years.
I mostly use 1+50, except when the development time is just too long for my patience/time available, or there is no information available for 1+50...( I don't like to extrapolate with images that might be IMPORTANT. )
I have never done a 1+25 vs. 1+50 side by side comparison, but I have not noticed any severe contrast increase when I used 1+25...
I tend to doubt most internet "Johnny-Come-Lately instant expert" methodology.

 

[MTGseattle]

For any who have been reading my mess here. I have some old tri-x (1978 date, red/yellow box, heavy Estar base). I've scanned through some old threads and aside from any give/take on developer time to compensate for age is there anything else odd about the Estar base in relation to processing? Also, I can't find a box speed on the box. Is this back into the 400 speed Tri-x?

I also have another complete mystery box of 400 speed 4x5. white outer box with the only label being "4x5, asa 400." inner packaging was a heat or press sealed foil lined package containing the film inside a card stock folio. There's a little oblong flyer inside with a #4 and a "please reference this number for any technical issues" No manufacturer data or address along with the little flyer.

 

[MTGseattle]

I continue to be a slight flake/my own worst enemy. I picked up the Minolta SRT and saw a box end on the back which made me think I was loaded with film. Never mind the cameras built in film loaded indicator. I think there are 3-4 "sessions" I used the camera without having film in it. The final session made me feel like a complete idiot, but gave me an excuse to finally try out the Celtic 28mm.
I also have my "franken-Holgapan" working. I made a specific side trip on my home from work last night to expose a roll and see whether or not I corrected the film scratch issue. I parked my truck and realized i brought the camera along but left the roll of film on the kitchen counter.

In the words of Kermit the frog, "It's not easy being green."

Incidentally I thought the voice actor was saying Kermit E frog into my 30's at least.

 

[Tom Taylor]

For many years, well into my adulthood, I thought they (Credence Clearwater Revival) were saying "There's a bathroom on the right" instead of "There's a bad moon on the rise."

 

[MTGseattle]

A brief segue into my Mamiya 6/6MF saga. I've mentioned this before, but in the proverbial gun to head scenario it is my favorite camera. the Mamiya 7 is a close second, but I find the overall usage of square smoother (no holding the camera vertically needed).

If we go back in time, I sold the 6 I had something like 13 years ago. I regretted the decision almost immediately, but life happens. Around ten years ago, I was in a place where I could pick medium format back up again. I balked at the then prices for a 6/6MF and bounced around between a lot of other options. In 2021 I found my first replacement 6MF in slightly distressed state for about 2/3 market rate.
I then cobbled together lenses from various places and in 2022 found a back-up body.
October 2023 is when the film advance failed on one body. The funny thing is that the film advance was also dead on body #2. I didn't remember this happening.

Fast-forward to yesterday, and I get my estimate email from Precision camera Works. $1635 to get both cameras up and running and make sure lenses are aligned with the rangefinders.
This didn't shock me too much. The preliminary findings did:

"Internal water damage"
"Improper re-assembly"
"pinched main control harness during re-assembly"
"broken advance parts"
etc, etc, it was quite the laundry list of faults.

These cameras have been to the techs at Glazers here in Seattle, they said nothing at all regarding water damage, and they are the ones who apparently re-assembled things improperly.
I will not trash them however, as they didn't charge me anything. There is also the chance that their investigations were not as thorough as Mr. Watkins. Who knows?

The camera that is in the worst shape performed perfectly fine until the advance failure which surprises me based upon the forensic findings. The camera body cost me $750 if I remember correctly. I did find out after briefly having said camera for sale here that it had previously been to PCW for repair twice. I think the person I bought it from was ham-fisted, or didn't understand the camera completely or both.

At any rate, my path forward is 2 cameras become 1 nice, working camera and the other becomes an organ donor cadaver.

The lesson here which is posted into many, many threads is to source gear with a known history of function and/or CLA. Beyond that, you may get lucky or you may end up where I am. When I get the revised invoice/total for repairs and shipping, we'll see if I am at or over current market rate for a 6MF.

It's not an entirely sad story, I did expose 15-20 rolls of film between these 2 bodies. I enjoyed the option of having a 50mm and a 75mm at the ready simultaneously. The only malfunctions while photographing had been a faulty "B" shutter setting on one body.
Mamiya segue finished.

Now then, with the introduction of the Pentax 17 bringing new focus onto an existing format, can someone clue me in on the appeal of half-frame 35mm? Like Tom Hank's character in "BIg," I don't get it.

 

[Lachlan Young]

the appeal of half-frame 35mm

Stop thinking, start doing. It's a notebook. And you can, depending on your level of obsession, try to build sequences/ diptychs/ triptychs and print them en-bloc.

An awful lot of people who take the wrong aspects of photography far too seriously should really be restricted to using 1/2 frame for a significant period of time. It's a very freeing format in some ways.

 

[MTGseattle]

OK. That is an intriguing concept.

 

[MTGseattle]

I got my Mamiya 6mf back from repair. Wheee!

 

[MTGseattle]

As I seem to keep falling into expired paper and/or films, should I start keeping Benzotriazole on hand? Is there anything else that comes in handy for fogging?

 

[MTGseattle]

I've got my Goerz Artar/Packard shutter figured out.
I'm working my way through a backlog of exposed film. I had a completely black frame today, no visible rebate even. I'm a bit curious what I did.

I've "grafted" the Lowepro 600 AW onto a different suspension/frame. I wouldn't call it expedition ready by any means, but it seems pretty solid when loaded with my 8x10 kit and it is a whole different world of comfort and adjustability vs the lowepro as sold. I am into new F-stop Anja territory where cost comes into this project, but there wasn't an f-stop cube that the Canham would fit into.

 

[MTGseattle]

One mystery solved. It appears that one needs all of the baffles installed in the Stearman sp810 or one will hopelessly fog one's film. Dang. Silly mistake. I didn't forget a baffle, I forgot all of them.

 

[MattKing]

One mystery solved. It appears that one needs all of the baffles installed in the Stearman sp810 or one will hopelessly fog one's film. Dang. Silly mistake. I didn't forget a baffle, I forgot all of them.

So one might say that your fogging problem is no longer "baffling"?

 

[AnselMortensen]

One mystery solved. It appears that one needs all of the baffles installed in the Stearman sp810 or one will hopelessly fog one's film. Dang. Silly mistake. I didn't forget a baffle, I forgot all of them.

Been there, done that.
I feel your pain.

 

[MTGseattle]

I was prepping for another processing effort, and I looked at the baffles laying on my drying rack and the realization hit me that I don't remember washing them after hanging the sheet in question to dry.

My modified Holga pan is still scratching film. Grrr.

I have a roll of Acros II to process for which I have zero notes.

 

[eli griggs]

I was prepping for another processing effort, and I looked at the baffles laying on my drying rack and the realization hit me that I don't remember washing them after hanging the sheet in question to dry.

My modified Holga pan is still scratching film. Grrr.

I have a roll of Acros II to process for which I have zero notes.

[...]here's something to consider that might help reduce the Holga scratches but you might think about taking a 8"x10" sheet of 3M ultra fine abrasive, self adhesive if none is available in a plain film sheet, and cut it to 120 format dimensions and, using a good straight edge rule, take a fine cut razor or scalpel, cut away both ends of the protective paper on the backside of every other strip, so it can adhere to the first and third and, if possible, a fifth strip, aligned as straight as your straight edge rule can make it.

Make two 120 film "tongues" and use thin Scott's Tape to add one to each end of the now completed abrasive 'film' and slowly roll this onto a 120 center roll, so it takes on the material and eventually becomes tight enough to fit into the camera.

This abrasive film is super fine, and only a few Mu deep, an almost impossibly smooth grit that should not harm your camera and optics, once any body debris is blown out with reasonable care.

Winding the film through the camera several times should abrade away any high spot, scratching your camera film and with two tongues one the roll, you can quickly switch the freshly rolled paper roll back to the starting roll cradle.

It is IMPORTAINT not to use a larger grit roll to do this with, and it's just as IMPORTANT to discover if it is the back or face of your camera's real film is being damaged, and orient the abrasive strip to work on the front or pressure point side, by reorienting the abrasive facing out or inside the camera's body.

It might take several trips through the camera, but you should be able to reduce the high spot that's ruining your films and remember if you need to, you can always use various thicknesses of paper to push the abrasive classes set to the object you are trying to to rid your camera of.

A sheet of normal printer paper is about 8/10,000".of an inch and is a significant 'push' towards getting deep enough to finish the job, if even necessary.

Good luck.

 

[MTGseattle]

I was thinking of starting another "which 4x5 camera" type thread and realized that I needed to compile some more information first.
to that end can anyone recall ever seeing Wisner, Tachihara, Ikeda, Nagoaka literature? I know someone is likely sitting on an old Calumet catalog or 2 and there could be some good info in there, but as many of us know, there was a lot of cross-branding and very subtle differences between some models.

I would call these confirmed;
Osaka=Tachihara
Tachihara= some Zone VI models (mainly after the zone VI logo changed to the futuristic font) and some Calumet wood field XM
Wisner= early (script logo newfane VT) Zone VI or vice versa?
Wista field dx? Made by Wista?
Horseman Woodman 45 ? Some speculate it is also made by Tachihara but I have never seen a Tach with the same hardware as a woodman 45 The metal looks dull like Aluminum.
Ebony; very clearly its own animal. There seem to be some knockoffs that appear from time to time
I think there are a few more Japanese folding wood field cameras as well, but many seem to be unbranded.
Ikeda
Toko
Gandolfi
R.H. Phillips
Walker = It seems like his molds for the "Titan" 45 were lost/destroyed so no more to come.
Richard Ritter
Deardorff


Here are some newer players (new with a grain of salt as some have been around 20-30 years now)

Canham = DLC45
Chamonix = RH Phillips design
Shen-Hao = copies of everyone else?
Intrepid = also some Philips dna. comparatively cheap for new cameras
Ondu
Lotus
Gibellini
Premier ? Newest to the world I think. no 4x5 as yet.


The reasons for my musings;
I currenly own
a Speed Graphic
a Wista 45sp
a Ikeda Anba

In the past I have owned a Crown graphic, 2 different Linhof Tech iv, a Toyo 45cf, a Shen-Hao hzx-45IIa (back when they were $625 new) a Chamonix 45N2, the Calumet Gowland pocket view and an MPP mk8.
A couple of these admittedly never saw any film, and were quickly swapped for other gear.

I would love to have a Linhof Tech, a Toyo 45A and the Wista 45 all on the same table for a direct, hands-on comparison but there's really no need to own all 3 at the same time.

The reason for my musings as you may have guessed is the all too common "which 4x5 to keep or change to?" question

The metal drop-bed options are nice and sturdy and good for backpacking due to that. Conversely they are heavy which is bad for backpacking/hiking.

The fuller featured wood field cameras (Wisner, Ebony, Deardorff, early zone Vi) are all also somewhat heavy. As we lessen available bellows draw and movements, we begin to lose weight, and we have to decide for ourselves which features we can do without. The Walker is also somewhat heavy (just not wood)

As silly as it may seem, I've been thinking of getting a Chamonix again. I was really happy with the weight/features/feel during use of the camera. The practical side of me thinks I should keep the Wista with the addition of maybe 2 more accessories that would add more functionality.

Do any of the previously listed wood field cameras employ a graflok type back? Based upon pictures, I think the Horseman woodman45 might.

I've left KB Canham's smaller wood/metal field camera out of this for now as it is actually a 5x7 and appears quite often with a reduction back to get 4x5.

Is this info useful or wanted in this forum?
Is the info I need scattered among the lfpf threads?

Exactly how many Tachihara models are there anyway?

 

[Focomatter]

I was thinking of starting another "which 4x5 camera" type thread and realized that I needed to compile some more information first.
to that end can anyone recall ever seeing Wisner, Tachihara, Ikeda, Nagoaka literature? I know someone is likely sitting on an old Calumet catalog or 2 and there could be some good info in there, but as many of us know, there was a lot of cross-branding and very subtle differences between some models.

SNIP

You can download Calumet catalogs here: https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/rlCalumetMisc.htm
As well, literature from various manufacturers listed here: https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/rlrindex.htm