I agree 200%!
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I agree 200%!
One thing I've learned from this - Fuji are not very good at communication. Everything we're hearing is second hand (ie not direct from Fuji) & contradictory - films are being discontinued & gone forever, or, some lines are being rationalised for changing market conditions. The end result has been a lot of confusion & fear (ie that 'my' favourite emulsion might disappear).
Seriously Fuji, can't you make some sort of clear & official media release to avoid this sort of situation?
Seriously Fuji, can't you make some sort of clear & official media release to avoid this sort of situation?
And if they did what would you do different? Just curious.
Mike
Mike
Well, when Kodak cancelled many products a few months ago, they did 3 things.
1. For Kodachrome, they called in a group of prominent analog photographers and APUG members for a tour of Kodak Park and then they gave them the information and permission to release it on a given date with details.
2. For the other products they sent a list to dealers that was free for dissemination.
3. They published all of this on their web site.
The result was a series of negative comments about Kodak and the way they handled it. Now, we have Fuji doing a far worse job and I guess, to be fair, my comment would have to be more negative about this situation than the Kodak cancellations!
Of course, it could be like the Konica or Agfa situations where in the case of Konica they were there one day and gone the next (so to speak) or Agfa where no one knows yet what is going on......
(kinda - almost - maybe depending on whether you are in Leverkusen, Morstel or Wolfen? IDK)
PE
1. For Kodachrome, they called in a group of prominent analog photographers and APUG members for a tour of Kodak Park and then they gave them the information and permission to release it on a given date with details.
2. For the other products they sent a list to dealers that was free for dissemination.
3. They published all of this on their web site.
The result was a series of negative comments about Kodak and the way they handled it. Now, we have Fuji doing a far worse job and I guess, to be fair, my comment would have to be more negative about this situation than the Kodak cancellations!
Of course, it could be like the Konica or Agfa situations where in the case of Konica they were there one day and gone the next (so to speak) or Agfa where no one knows yet what is going on......
(kinda - almost - maybe depending on whether you are in Leverkusen, Morstel or Wolfen? IDK)PE
Damn, sir.
That may be the best quote I've yet seen on APUG - or anywhere else. I may have to offer royalties for permission to use this...
Ken
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Well, when Kodak cancelled many products a few months ago, they did 3 things.
1. For Kodachrome, they called in a group of prominent analog photographers and APUG members for a tour of Kodak Park and then they gave them the information and permission to release it on a given date with details.
2. For the other products they sent a list to dealers that was free for dissemination.
3. They published all of this on their web site.
The result was a series of negative comments about Kodak and the way they handled it. Now, we have Fuji doing a far worse job and I guess, to be fair, my comment would have to be more negative about this situation than the Kodak cancellations!
Of course, it could be like the Konica or Agfa situations where in the case of Konica they were there one day and gone the next (so to speak) or Agfa where no one knows yet what is going on......
PE
agreed!
In any of these "43 products" is there a major surprise in addition to what has already been mentioned here (specifically any 35mm chrome films gone for good in the US market)?
I would guess that Fuji is again just "doing Fujis", so, they just announce some discontinuations to increase sales and then cancel the plans when they see the response. Just like with Velvia 50 and Pro 800Z.
As they cancelled the discontinuance of Pro 800Z due to good enough sales, is it really possible that 160S and 160C and many other popular films would be discontinued at the same time?
It is possible, of course. But it's also possible that this is again the (in?)famous Fuji marketing trick. I don't like this kind of marketing at all, but well, if it makes people buy more film, it may be inevitable. However, it creates an oscillation, when people first buy film to prevent further discontinuations and then buy some more as a thank you when the discontinuation is cancelled; but then people find their fridges full of film and won't buy anything for a while.
Generally, I prefer Kodak style of marketing; while not perfect at all, it's not completely catastrophic like Fuji's
. I think that both of them have equal commitment to analog.
As they cancelled the discontinuance of Pro 800Z due to good enough sales, is it really possible that 160S and 160C and many other popular films would be discontinued at the same time?
It is possible, of course. But it's also possible that this is again the (in?)famous Fuji marketing trick. I don't like this kind of marketing at all, but well, if it makes people buy more film, it may be inevitable. However, it creates an oscillation, when people first buy film to prevent further discontinuations and then buy some more as a thank you when the discontinuation is cancelled; but then people find their fridges full of film and won't buy anything for a while.
Generally, I prefer Kodak style of marketing; while not perfect at all, it's not completely catastrophic like Fuji's
. I think that both of them have equal commitment to analog.
Stephen;
In line with APUGs policies, I will publish no private data sent to me in PMs or E-Mails. Sorry.
But, I can say, no surprises in view of what we have seen here.
I might add that a Fuji rep told me that this confusion was all caused by a sticky floor mat. No, wait, that was sticky brake software --- hmmm, wonder what has caused this. Gee, none of the Japanese seem to have their stories straight lately, right?
PE
"Gee, none of the Japanese seem to have their stories straight lately, right?"
I would not think the actions of two large corporations to be reflective of all of "the Japanese."
I would not think the actions of two large corporations to be reflective of all of "the Japanese."
All right!
None of the Japanese that we have dealt with lately on a global scale then. Now, that represents a lot of Japanese manpower and Yen, right? So, give me a break!
PE
None of the Japanese that we have dealt with lately on a global scale then. Now, that represents a lot of Japanese manpower and Yen, right? So, give me a break!
PE
You did it again!
No, I amended it to be more specific to two large corporations that act globally.
I was hoping that would work.
PE
Actually come over here and watch how the current crop of politicians are handling things, not limited to the ruling DPJ by any means. It's pretty bad, I think. Looking at the way many corporations have been doing things, it is certainly not limited to Fuji & Toyota.
That said, 95% + of the people here are great, but some of the corporations have pulled some real blunders as of late. Poor communication near the top of the list. But, please clearly distinguish between the companies and the people. They are two very different things.
Gary
That said, 95% + of the people here are great, but some of the corporations have pulled some real blunders as of late. Poor communication near the top of the list. But, please clearly distinguish between the companies and the people. They are two very different things.
Gary
I specifically stated Japanese Corporations, but that boils down to people in some cases.
I lived in Japan for 18 months and at one time could read and write Japanese rather fluently, but now it is a lost art for me. I have many Japanese friends from Fuji and Konica and respect their energy and diligence. So, no criticism from me to the average person, but someone has to get the stories straight somewhere and get the information out there. Someone "engineered" both "problems" and this is something that now must be handled at some level.
PE
I lived in Japan for 18 months and at one time could read and write Japanese rather fluently, but now it is a lost art for me. I have many Japanese friends from Fuji and Konica and respect their energy and diligence. So, no criticism from me to the average person, but someone has to get the stories straight somewhere and get the information out there. Someone "engineered" both "problems" and this is something that now must be handled at some level.
PE
It is just the term "the Japanese" that I am talking about.
You were obviously not around when Fuji advertized that their new film was "from the people who brought you Pearl Harbor". This raised quite a furor in the US to say the least! Fuji does goof and on a major level.
In any event, since I don't know the names, I guess "the Japanese" will have to do for the thousands of faceless and nameless (but mainly well intentioned) people who work for Fuji (and Toyota), many of whom are actually American and live in the US.
PE
In any event, since I don't know the names, I guess "the Japanese" will have to do for the thousands of faceless and nameless (but mainly well intentioned) people who work for Fuji (and Toyota), many of whom are actually American and live in the US.
PE
Ron,
That was not directed towards you nor anyone else in particular. My apologies if you or anyone else took it that way. I had a rather poor conversation with people back home, about how "bad" Japan, as well as the Japanese must be........My impressions of the leadership of many of these companies as well as the governmental leaders here is not so good (to be polite), but the average Joe (Hiroshi) on the street is a different.
My apologies.
Gary
After
That was not directed towards you nor anyone else in particular. My apologies if you or anyone else took it that way. I had a rather poor conversation with people back home, about how "bad" Japan, as well as the Japanese must be........My impressions of the leadership of many of these companies as well as the governmental leaders here is not so good (to be polite), but the average Joe (Hiroshi) on the street is a different.
My apologies.
Gary
After
They actually did this?! That doesn't make any sense to me.
Try "the Japanese people".
perhaps Kodak should have retaliated by advertising their film as "from the people who brought you the atomic bomb." I guess that's why I'm not in the marketing business
Spend some time here and you will be either shocked, saddened or laughing beyond belief due some of the use of English. Which is probably where the Pearl Harbor thing comes in.
On a side note, my favorite item is COLON chocolate.
Gary
On a side note, my favorite item is COLON chocolate.
Gary
Understood, PE.
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