Interesting news about Fujicolor Pro

Ektagraphic · Mar 16, 2010

Buy it now. I am very happy with the Portra so I just bought some.....

bob100684 · Mar 16, 2010

My 4 rolls of neopan 120, 4 rolls of 160C 120 are on their way...it's gunna be great breaking out the kiev again.

clayne · Mar 16, 2010

B&Wpositive said:
B&H has about 50 rolls of 800Z left. If this is really the end of distribution right now, then there's not much 800Z left.

It always amazes me how quick discontinued films like this run out. If they're such bad sellers then why are they so damn hard to get ahold of? (Partly rhetorical)

mikebarger · Mar 17, 2010

I would suspect some of it is delaying announcement after it is discontinued lets inventory drop. Must be some fear some users will go ahead and move to another product (even if it is from the same manufacturer) and they'd get stuck with overage product. Wild guess.

Mike

bob100684 · Mar 17, 2010

clayne said:
It always amazes me how quick discontinued films like this run out. If they're such bad sellers then why are they so damn hard to get ahold of? (Partly rhetorical)

There can be sudden increase in sales of discontinued items because people want to have enough of it to finish current projects. Also, "B&H has 50 rolls left" doesn't really say much. Their normal stock level for all we know is 50 or 75 rolls.

B&Wpositive · Mar 17, 2010

Stock levels

bob100684 said:
There can be sudden increase in sales of discontinued items because people want to have enough of it to finish current projects. Also, "B&H has 50 rolls left" doesn't really say much. Their normal stock level for all we know is 50 or 75 rolls.

They actually had over 300 rolls over the weekend, when I purchased. I believe they typically try to stock between 200 and 1000 rolls (going by past experience). It is still possible they would get more in from the distributor, even if the film is discontinued. However, I needed some for an upcoming project, so I didn't want to take a risk...I purchased a few pro-packs.

naugastyle · Mar 17, 2010

I purchased 20 rolls of 35mm 800Z and 20 rolls of 35mm Reala at Adorama on Sunday, although I didn't think to ask them how many they had left of either one. I kind of wanted to buy more 800Z but the project that I plan to use it for hasn't gotten off the ground yet and including the Reala, that was $200 worth of film...a huge hit for me.

So did you actually ask them if they were not ordering any more, and if they were fully aware of the announcement? Just wondering because when the big announcement about chemistry discontinuations came out, the B&H staff didn't know about it when I asked about it 2 weeks later.

B&Wpositive · Mar 17, 2010

naugastyle said:
I purchased 20 rolls of 35mm 800Z and 20 rolls of 35mm Reala at Adorama on Sunday, although I didn't think to ask them how many they had left of either one. I kind of wanted to buy more 800Z but the project that I plan to use it for hasn't gotten off the ground yet and including the Reala, that was $200 worth of film...a huge hit for me.

So did you actually ask them if they were not ordering any more, and if they were fully aware of the announcement? Just wondering because when the big announcement about chemistry discontinuations came out, the B&H staff didn't know about it when I asked about it 2 weeks later.

I have no idea if they can order more or not. We'll have to see. That's why I bought it over the weekend. I bought $175 worth of film (not just 800Z)...really stretched the budget. But buying that many rolls of Portra 800 would have been a much worse financial strain.

johnnymoped · Mar 17, 2010

so what's up with reala?
fuji uk's press-release is the only one talking about this.
the japanese and us pressreleases don't even mention reala.

perkeleellinen · Mar 17, 2010

At best 35mm Reala is no longer being imported into the UK. At worst, Reala has been killed off and only Fuji UK has had the courtesy of bothering to inform the customers.

snowblind · Mar 17, 2010

Just thought I'd stop by APUG, for the first time in a long time I'm ashamed to say, and see if there was any news of discontinuations and I see this on the front page. (I'm getting less and less confident of the future availability of film and paper by the day.)

Anyway, I went to choose-film.org (supposedly run by Fuji) and saw this post from two days ago regarding Pro 160 in the "Questions to Fujifilm UK" forum: http://choose-film.com/?page_id=5&xdforum_action=viewthread&xf_id=4&xt_id=517&pstart=0. I haven't read all 29 pages of this thread so maybe I'm repeating what someone else already said.

AgX · Mar 18, 2010

AgX said:
I was just hinted at a Fuji discontinuation list of the japanese homemarket from last month (aside from their price lists).

That list too shows only 5 total cancellations:

-) Neopan Presto 400 in 120
-) Pro 160 NC in 120
-) T64 in 4x5"
-) T64 in 4x5" QL
-) T64 in 8x10"

T64 is still listed as 135 and 120,
Neopan 400 Presto is still listed as 135
Pro 160NC is still listed as 4x5", 4x5"QL and 8x10"
Pro 800 is still listed as 120

Again: this is the japanese market, and this does not give information on long term availabilty.

Today Fuji Germany presented a listing stating that it is based on information from Tokyo.
They name two films that do not show up in my listing of 5 films above:

-) Neopan 1600 in 120 (already not listed, could they mean 135 instead??)
-) Reala in 135

johnnymoped · Mar 18, 2010

AgX said:
Today Fuji Germany presented a listing stating that it is based on information from Tokyo.
They name two films that do not show up in my listing of 5 films above:

-) Neopan 1600 in 120 (already not listed, could they mean 135 instead??)
-) Reala in 135

where can this listing be found?

AgX · Mar 18, 2010

It was a reply on an article in a german photo magazine related to this confusion:

"Fujifilm Imaging Deutschland hat uns bestätigt, dass die Konzernzentrale in Japan aufgrund der rückläufigen Nachfrage eine Anpassung des Filmsortiments angekündigt hat. Man gehe - abhängig von der tatsächlichen Nachfrage - von folgenden Rest-Verfügbarkeiten aus:
Neopan 400 120 - voraussichtlich 2. Quartal 2010
Neopan 1600 120 - voraussichtlich 3. Quartal 2010
Reala KB - voraussichtlich 3. Quartal 2010
Pro 160 S - voraussichtlich 2. Quartal 2010
Pro 160 C - voraussichtlich 2. Quartal 2010
Weiter teilt Fujifilm Imaging mit, dass zum Pro 160 C bzw. S ein Nachfolgeprodukt im 3. Quartal 2010 zur Verfügung stehen soll und weist darauf hin, „dass die Sortimentsplanung einem dynamischen Prozess unterliegt“ (abhängig von Nachfrage, Importbestimmungen, Rohstoffbeschaffung ...), so dass Änderungen im Angebot kurzfristig erfolgen können."

johnnymoped · Mar 18, 2010

thanks, just read it a few minutes ago.

this still does not make sense.
apparently it is discontinued in UK and Germany but not in the US and Japan.

It seems like Fuji Headquarters are shipping some films only to specific countries.
Two years ago I asked Fuji Germany why they don't sell 800Z in 135mm in Germany and they answered that there was not enough demand for it in Germany.
Fuji UK did (and still does) sell it though.
So there might be some hope still to be able to import Reala from Japan or US in the future.

lilserenity · Mar 18, 2010

Fuji UK Situation

Hiya,

Ok I have finally got somewhere. This pertains to the UK situation and as you read you will see how this seems to work:

Each country decides what to import from Fuji Japan depending on demand, so what is not available in one country to another doesn't necessarily constitute discontuation outright.

So in the UK these are the changes

- Reala 35mm is no longer imported and is effectively no longer going to be available in the UK
- Reala 120 is a big seller and will continue to be imported into the UK
- Pro 160S - 35mm no longer imported into the UK, 120 and other sheet sizes will continue but Quickloads are discontinued. This will be rebranded as Pro 160NS later in 2010 (sorry I originally said 160NPS, that was a mistake, I had written the old-old name!)
- Pro 160C - the word is this: "120 is in short supply in the UK at the moment , but we have coming back in stock mid April." -- this doesn't confirm 160C is discontinued worldwide as we have heard but for now the UK will continued to get this film.
- Pro 400H - No changes, all will continue except Quickloads as noted.
- Pro 800Z - again I quote "35mm is not a very popular line, but I've not heard it will be dropped. 120 has already been dropped." (dropped meaning no longer imported by Fuji UK)
- Neopan 400 120 - As we all know by now, this is gone worldwide and is discontinued outright.
- Neopan 1600 - Still popular in the UK so we will continue to see it, not sure about Germany. No mentions of 120 format.

There is no mention of a Neopan 400 replacement in 120, as far as I can suggest, a new version is little more than a rumour at the moment. We will just have to see. I personally have never used Neopan 400, I'm more a TMax 400/HP5+ or Tri-X person at that speed.

So the message is, want to keep 800Z, buy more if you can, if you don't, it will probably not be imported much in the way 120 format 800Z isn't.

I still thought Reala 35mm was more popular than it evidently is in the UK.

So it looks like we can still buy Reala 35mm but it'll have to be from abroad or as a grey import I guess. I guess the same could be said for 160S in 35mm too.

So it's not a case of mass discontination, just a case of more selective importing.

I still think 160C is at risk give Fuji Japan's discontinuation notices but for now it'll still be around.

Vicky

AgX · Mar 18, 2010

Vicky, those national differences have been hinted at before. But in this latest Fuji statement there is a reference to the Tokyo headqarter, although they have Reala still listed.

I guess we won't get any wiser. We'll have to wait and see what will be offered.

lilserenity · Mar 18, 2010

AgX said:
Vicky, those national differences have been hinted at before. But in this latest Fuji statement there is a reference to the Tokyo headqarter, although they have Reala still listed.

This has come directly from Fuji UK, and the reason I iterate this all here is because the "hinting at" is the problem ,there's been nothing firm.

This sounds pretty firm from the UK situation and I cannot possibly comment about each other country's situation.

Therefore I am inclined to stand behind what I have been told as it's been pretty clear. As I see it the only question mark hangs over 160C in the UK at least.

Vicky

Athiril · Mar 18, 2010

Id hate to lose Reala and 160S. And 800Z even.

GeorgK · Mar 18, 2010

If it is true, that Neopan 400/120 was cancelled simply because the used surfactant has been banned for environmental reasons, than this does not imply much faith in Fuji's will to cope with the increased dynamic in film production business.
Also, a possible gap of a few months when 160S/C will be sold out in Q2 until the successor will arrive in Q3 is also quite strange and does not look very professional - apart from the horrendous information politics by Fujifilm. BTW, if you thought Toyota was unbeatable stupid, you might have to reconsider.

Wa all know that the colour film market is shrinking and colour film will die once the movie industry completely switches to digital. But at the moment it seems to be killed by lack in professionalism first.

Georg

Photo Engineer · Mar 18, 2010

GeorgK said:
If it is true, that Neopan 400/120 was cancelled simply because the used surfactant has been banned for environmental reasons, than this does not imply much faith in Fuji's will to cope with the increased dynamic in film production business.

Georg

I must have missed this somewhere in the thread, but surfactants can be easily replaced / exchanged with other surfactants in my experience. There are probably thousands of them on the market.

PE

frdrx · Mar 18, 2010

Photo Engineer said:
I must have missed this somewhere in the thread, but surfactants can be easily replaced / exchanged with other surfactants in my experience. There are probably thousands of them on the market.

PE

The substance concerned, according to internet sources, is perfluorooctane sulfonate (PFOS). Why would this particular chemical be so important for the production of Neopan 400 in 120 format?

Photo Engineer · Mar 18, 2010

Well, I have not seen the sources. That is an anionic surfactant and those are rather common. Triton-X 200 is one like that IIRC. Many of them are interchangable. But, use of an ionic surfactant indicates some kind of support/chemical interaction that must be overcome by having a charged (Ionic) surfactant. Very unusual if true. Perhaps it serves several purposes. This is not a surfactant that one would normally choose.

Can you give a reference?

PE

GeorgK · Mar 18, 2010

The rumour/information/gossip on PFOS and Neopan:

http://www.japanexposures.com/2010/02/26/fujifilm-to-reorganize-film-lineup/

http://www.flickr.com/groups/neopan/discuss/72157623596550024/#comment72157623478226823

Photo Engineer · Mar 18, 2010

I believe that it is harmful, I just cannot figure out why they chose this particular surfactant (or antistat) when others are readily available and much less toxic and expensive.

PE

Interesting news about Fujicolor Pro

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