Info on Wollensak 101mm f:4.5 Raptar

[Robert Ley]

I recently picked up the above lens in a Rapax shutter and I have a couple of questions. I plan to use it for 6x9 and 6x7 with my Wista VX and a sliding back so not really concerned with image circle although I would like to know what kind of IC the lens has.

The Rapax shutter needs a cleaning and as I only paid $40 for the lens and shutter I would like to try cleaning this shutter myself. When I remove the lens elements I can see the inside of the shutter very easily. Has anyone used the old lighter fluid cleaning method with this shutter? All the shutter speeds work but some are very sticky and off.

When I attach a cable release it will not trip the shutter, but when I stick a more narrow pin into the hole the shutter will fire. Does one need a special release cable to trip this shutter?

Does any one know what size filters this lens takes. When I measure it comes out to about 29mm. Anyone know the exact size filter?

I would like to get this lens working as it is coated and the elements are in descent shape.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Axle]

The Wollensak Raptars are fantastic lenses. While I haven't been able to find any sort of exact numbers for you, I did find an ebay auction that has the same lens mounted on a Busch Pressman, a 2.25" x 3.25" camera, so the lens I would assume has an Image Circle large enough to cover about 6cm by 8.25cm so your 6x7 will work and I'm sure the 6x9 will be fine as well.

But I leave some exact notes to those who have a better grasp!

 

[shutterfinger]

Did you know that:
Wollensak did not list the IC for its lens. They did list the format size the lens will cover. The 101 mm (4 inch) Raptar covers 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/wollensak_3.html
Raptar lens were rebadged Optar for Graflex Corp. use.
Rapax shutters were rebadged Graphex for Graflex Corp. use. http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/GraphexShutterService.pdf
Lighter fluid leaves an oily residue.
Naphtha, the main ingredient in lighter fluid, damages plastic and rubber. Plastic and rubber are used in the Rapax shutter as insulators.
The shutter came in 3 versions; no flash sync, full flash sync, and electronic flash sync only.
No special cable release is needed.
The 101 Raptar is in a #1 Rapax shutter. Use the above linked service manual to CLA it or send it to me.

 

[Whiteymorange]

I have used naptha on Rapax shutters many times with no ill effects. It is not, however, a real cleaning job. In a pinch, I will mix a little very fine graphite with Rossignol lighter fluid and squirted a small amount into a sticky shutter. In each case it worked for years. If you do want to try a little naptha, and I do use little, not a flood, try the lighter fluid type, not the VPN variety sold for thinning paint. That does leave a slight residue. I have personally never, under any circumstance, seen a residue from lighter fluid, but I won't argue the point. If you want to check, put a few drops on a clean piece of glass and let it evaporate. If there is any residue, don't use it. After you decide whether or not you like the lens, have it CLA'd by a professional. I think you will like it. Wollensak, a very good lens company, considered the Raptar the top of its line. It is not contrasty and sharp in the way that a German lens can be, but my examples have a creamy-sharp look, very popular in the 40's and 50's for magazine work.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I have Popular Photography Annals 1954 and 1957 and Wollensaks are better than all , faraway more modern look. Clean , sharp and tonal. Onlu competitor is Leica and Ektar.

 

[Dan Fromm]

All very interesting comments. In the 2x3 Graphic scheme of things, the top-of-the line (= most expensive) original issue normal lens was the 105/3.7 Ektar, a Heliar type that everyone says good things about. Next down were the 101/4.5 Ektar and 101/4.5 Optar/Raptar. The bottom of the barrel were any of several f/4.5 triplets from Wollensak. I've always regarded the 101/4.5 Ektar as the gold standard of normal lenses for 2x3 Graphics.

The question of whether EKCo did tessar types better than Wollensak -- in the context of this discussion, whether the 101/4.5 Ektar is better than the 101/4.5 Optar/Raptar -- has never, to my knowledge, been answered by objective testing. Each has its partisans.

The parallel question about 127/4.7 Ektars and Optars/Raptars, both standard issue normal lenses for 3x4 and 4x5 Pacemaker Graphics, has been addressed. Matching the Ektar's image quality across the field, and especially towards the edges, with an Optar/Raptar requires stopping down two stops more. This, according to Richard Knoppow, who made the point in many discussions on the usenet rec.photo. forums that used to be, because whoever computed the Raptars made an error that resulted in poor correction for coma, an off-axis aberration that can be controlled by stopping down.

Some years ago I had in hand a 105/3.7 Ektar, a 101/4.5 Ektar, and a 103/4.5 Graftar, a triplet made by Wollensak. I shot a USAF 1951 chart at 20 focal lengths distance with each of these lenses at every stop from wide open to f/22. Short answer, the 101 had better center and corner resolution (this last means better coverage) that the 105 and the Graftar beat the Ektars from f/11 down and matched the 101 from wide open. When I mentioned these results on www.graflex.org several other members reported the same results.

I've had other Wollensak lenses. The only ones I've found to be outstanding are the 160/5.6 Pro Raptar, Wollensak's answer to Schneider's Symmar and Rodenstock's Sironar, and the 4"/5.6 Enlarging Pro Raptar, a counter to the Componon and Rodagon. I've never had a 210/5.6 Pro Raptar and I have but have never tried out other, longer, Enlarging Pro Raptars. My 4 incher is a superb macro lens, but note that Klaus Schmitt has one that he sees as nothing special. I tried out a 2 incher as a macro lens, it wasn't that good.

Oh, and by the way, none of the 2x3 Graphic standard issue normal lenses comes close to covering 4x5. We're talking medium format here, not large format.

 

[Two23]

The lens covers quarter plate, as already mentioned. Raptar was the "new" name given to Wollensak's Velostigmat when they were coated sometime around 1946. The lens is probably just single coated. I have a bigger and older Velostigmat 300mm, and it does need a special cable release--one with a much long throw. The lenses are pretty sharp stopped down, and have a softer look wide open that's good for portraits. The Velostigmat/Raptar/Optar is a 4 element Tessar design.


Kent in SD

 

[Tom1956]

The naptha trick is well-discussed on these forums. In fact I have initiated some almost annoying discussions on this subject. You might well and probably will; end up with a shutter that seems to work fine, and "the shutter speeds sound accurate". This is all EBAY talk for "this shutter needs CLA".
If you want to go this way, then you get what you get. Otherwise study study study on how to properly clean and test this shutter. It is not a particularly hard one to learn on, so you have 2 choices--send it off, or learn what it takes to do it right. You will need to construct a shutter tester, and learn how to use the sound card and music editing program. You need to learn where and how to lubricate, and how to file or expand the ring cam, and so on. I have progressed on to spring fabrication in my studies.
The lighter fluid trick rarely gives any kind of accuracy at all. GL

 

[Robert Ley]

Thanks all for the good information on this lens. It appears that I might have a good deal here. I think that I will get a CLA on the shutter because I will be using this little gem. I have a shutter tester and just tested a Seiko shutter that came with a 75mm f:8 Fuji lens. It surprised me to find that the shutter speeds on this shutter were very close to right on. The only speeds that were off and still within about 1/3 stop were 1 sec and 1/500 and that is to be expected with most leaf shutters.

I also have a Tominon 105 f:4.5 lens but it is mounted in a Copal/Polaroid Press shutter. I don't like using the press shutters as you have to change the shutter speed to B in order to focus.

I suspect that this lens (the Tominon) is a pretty good performer and I believe that it will just hit the corners on 4x5...haven't really used it that much.
If anyone has any info on this lens, please pass it on.

I still need the filter size, so if anyone knows or knows were to find out please let me know.

 

[BrianShaw]

Probably a slip-on series filter adapter is needed.

 

[shutterfinger]

The Raptar uses Series filters. I do not know about the Tominon.
Series filter system has several slip on adapters that the filter goes into. Measure the outside diameter of the front lens barrel then use the info in this thread, www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=3324 , to find which size and adapter you need. See the post by pv17vv near the end of the thread.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I also have a Tominon 105 f:4.5 lens but it is mounted in a Copal/Polaroid Press shutter. I don't like using the press shutters as you have to change the shutter speed to B in order to focus.

I suspect that this lens (the Tominon) is a pretty good performer and I believe that it will just hit the corners on 4x5...haven't really used it that much.
If anyone has any info on this lens, please pass it on.

The 105/4.5 Tominon in Polaroid Copal Press #1 was mostly sold for Polaroid's CU-5 Gel Cam. It is supposed to be designed for closeup photography. If so, it won't be that good at distance.

I've never had one so can't say anything about it. Should easily cover 2x3 at distance, though.

Re having to set press shutters to B or T to focus, this depends on the shutter. Some Copal #0 and #1 press shutters have open shutter levers, some Prontor Press #1s have cable release sockets for open shutter.

 

[Barry Kirsten]

I have a 101mm Optar on my Horseman VH. The lens takes a push-on series VI adapter which has a filter thread of 44 mm; I then use a 44-49 step-up ring so I can standardise on 49 mm filters.

Barry

 

[Robert Ley]

Barry,
Any idea where I might be able to pickup one of these adapters? Or a series adapter to standard filter size adapter. I had a Kodak 135mm Wide field Ektar and it had a series VII front thread. I found a series VII to 49mm adapter that worked very well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Hatchetman]

these adapters are usually easy to find on eBay. just make sure you get the right one.

 

[Jim Noel]

Yes, a slip on adapter is needed. Your cable release problem is related to the depth to which the plunger will reach. It sounds like your is very short, as a standard one should work OK.

 

[shutterfinger]

the cable release problem is due to the shutter being dirty. the plunger of the cable release is going over the formed edge of the cable release lever or the formed edge is bent back.
this shutter will self destruct if not serviced. i have fixed one or two that were run until they stopped. repair shops would have returned them as unrepairable. i charge extra $$$$ to fix such abused shutters.

 

[Eric Verheul]

the cable release problem is due to the shutter being dirty. the plunger of the cable release is going over the formed edge of the cable release lever or the formed edge is bent back.
this shutter will self destruct if not serviced. i have fixed one or two that were run until they stopped. repair shops would have returned them as unrepairable. i charge extra $$$$ to fix such abused shutters.

Do you still repair shutters?

 

[shutterfinger]

Yes.

 

[Eric Verheul]

Yes.

Excellent, If you work on synchro rapid shutters I might need your business contact information. 1/25th and faster fire fine, but slower speeds and the shutter sticks 1/2 way through it's cycle and completes the cycle with a gentle nudge... yet bulb cycles in spite of me not wanting it to cycle. lol

 

[David Lindquist]

Excellent, If you work on synchro rapid shutters I might need your business contact information. 1/25th and faster fire fine, but slower speeds and the shutter sticks 1/2 way through it's cycle and completes the cycle with a gentle nudge... yet bulb cycles in spite of me not wanting it to cycle. lol

I'll be interested to hear shutter finger's reply to this as Henry Paine in Stockton CA to whom I used to send my Compurs has retired.

David

 

[shutterfinger]

Yes I service the Compur line of shutters.
I'm backed up at the moment and will not be accepting any more gear to service for 2 or 3 weeks.
Send me a message for further inquiries.

 

[David Lindquist]

Yes I service the Compur line of shutters.
I'm backed up at the moment and will not be accepting any more gear to service for 2 or 3 weeks.
Send me a message for further inquiries.

Thank you. This is just the sort of information I needed.

David

 

[thuggins]

I also have a Tominon 105 f:4.5 lens but it is mounted in a Copal/Polaroid Press shutter. I don't like using the press shutters as you have to change the shutter speed to B in order to focus.

I suspect that this lens (the Tominon) is a pretty good performer and I believe that it will just hit the corners on 4x5...haven't really used it that much.
If anyone has any info on this lens, please pass it on.

I still need the filter size, so if anyone knows or knows were to find out please let me know.

I recently picked up a Polaroid with the Tominon lens. These cameras were designed to take screen captures of oscilloscopes and CRT's, so they are intended for close-ups. I adapted both the lens and the hand grip/cable release for the Baby Graphic. The filter thread is 40.5mm. You can get a 40.5mm to 52mm step up ring off the evil auction site.

Series filters are a mixed blessing. Getting the right mounting ring is the first step. The filters themselves are often in bad shape or faded due to age. I epoxy a step up ring into the mounting collar so the whole setup can be used with modern, threaded filters. At some point in the past I believe I posted the correct ring size for Series V, VI and perhaps IV and/or VII. The main drawback is that they will scratch the hell out of the OD of the lens mount. This might be OK with a press camera lens, but it can ruin the focus scale on other lenses.

 

[Dan McCabe]

I have a Century Graphic 23 with a Kodak Ektar 101mm f4.5 lens in a Kodak Flash Supermatic shutter. I have never liked this shutter since I worked on them at National Camera in 1973. Like mine, most of them are flat worn out and erratic, no matter what you do to them! I'm looking at a Wollensak Raptor 101mm f4.5 in a Graphic shutter on eBay with a very scratched front element. I'm hoping and need to know if my Ektar, front and rear groups, will fit in this shutter in place of the wollensak?? My Ektar front group has 29.5mm thread. Does any one have information on this? Much appreciated!