• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Increasing grain for traditional grain films

Latest Gallery

Somewhere...

D
Somewhere...

  • 1
  • 1
  • 17
Iriana

H
Iriana

  • 5
  • 1
  • 76

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
202,734
Messages
2,844,818
Members
101,490
Latest member
zhao12138
Recent bookmarks
0
warden

warden

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
3,255
Location
Philadelphia
Format
Medium Format
Howdy.

If I want to double or triple the apparent grain size of a film (say, Tri-X or HP5) without affecting the speed of the film, how would that be done? Can it be done?

I generally use "normal" developers like Xtol, TMax, DDX and Ilfosol3, but I'm happy to experiment if there is a developer that does what I'm after.

Thanks!

P.S. I s searched the forums and didn't see quite what I'm asking for but if this is a well trodden subject that I've missed I'd appreciate a link.
 
Underexposing + overdeveloping in Rodinal gives me all the grain I can handle.
 
I'm assuming "use a smaller format" isn't the solution you were looking for.
Try a much more active developer, such as a print developer like Dektol. You may have to experiment to get development times dialed in.
Higher acutance developers will increase the appearance of grain, even if the grain itself isn't increased.
If you develop to higher contrast, the grain will be more apparent.
 
jawarden said:
triple the apparent grain size
Click to expand...
That's going to be tough. Grain is to a large extent inherent to the film. So the obvious choice would be to get some Delta3200 and enjoy its significant grain.
But if it needs to be HP5+, I'm with the other posters. Get a nice and active developer like paper developer, or plain old rodinal. Patrick Gainer's vitamin C developer formula also gives rather emphasized grain. Heck, even pyrocat with extended development gives some pretty obvious grain with HP5+. Whatever you do, just develop liberally and grain will grow up to a certain point. I'd only forego the xtol as it tends to give somewhat less grainy negatives (which is exactly why I like it!)
 
MattKing said:
I'm assuming "use a smaller format" isn't the solution you were looking for.
Try a much more active developer, such as a print developer like Dektol. You may have to experiment to get development times dialed in.
Higher acutance developers will increase the appearance of grain, even if the grain itself isn't increased.
If you develop to higher contrast, the grain will be more apparent.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've already reduced to 35mm negatives for these experiments so no need to reduce further. Thanks for the advice, I'll look into Dektol.
 
MattKing said:
I'm assuming "use a smaller format" isn't the solution you were looking for.
Click to expand...

There's the best answer. Use the fastest film you can get your hands on in the smallest format you can manage if you want more grain. Shoot with a wide-angle lens and crop severely if you need a smaller format than you actually have. Develop in an acutance developer or print developer or even lith developer. Don't use solvent developers like D-76 or Xtol, since they smooth out the grain by dissolving away the edges.

If you need an even grittier look, you might try temperature shocking the film during processing to induce reticulation.

Best,

Doremus
 
Doremus Scudder said:
There's the best answer. Use the fastest film you can get your hands on in the smallest format you can manage if you want more grain. Shoot with a wide-angle lens and crop severely if you need a smaller format than you actually have. Develop in an acutance developer or print developer or even lith developer. Don't use solvent developers like D-76 or Xtol, since they smooth out the grain by dissolving away the edges.

If you need an even grittier look, you might try temperature shocking the film during processing to induce reticulation.

Best,

Doremus
Click to expand...

Wide/crop 35mm film is exactly what I'm doing now, which makes sense but I'd like to go a step further than what I'm seeing currently. I'll look into temperature shock, thanks!
 
I used half frame 35mm. I got a Samurai which pulls film vertically and I tape the film can with foil to encode 250 speed for Tri-X.

An Olympus Pen would be a lot of fun to shoot as well. But then you will tend to see pictures in a vertical format (better for magazine covers but might not feel familiar).

Then I develop in Dektol 1:9
 
Do a search on reticulation and see if that's something you can intentionally and reliably reproduce time-after-time.

BTW, what film are you using? There must be some off-brand high-speed film that has monster grain out there somewhere.

Best of luck.
 
koraks said:
That's going to be tough. Grain is to a large extent inherent to the film. So the obvious choice would be to get some Delta3200 and enjoy its significant grain.
But if it needs to òe HP5+, I'm with the other posters. Get a nice and active developer like paper developer, or plain old rodinal. Patrick Gainer's vitamin C developer formula also gives rather emphasized grain. Heck, even pyrocat with extended development gives some pretty obvious grain with HP5+. Whatever you do, just develop liberally and grain will grow up to a certain point. I'd only forego the xtol as it tends to give somewhat less grainy negatives (which is exactly why I like it!)
Click to expand...

I do love D23200 and P3200 as well and I could use an ND filter to control it in daylight conditions I suppose. The conditions are outdoors, sunny, mid day. I'll test a roll and crop heavily to compare to what I'm seeing with Tri-X. Thanks!
 
Bill Burk said:
I used half frame 35mm. I got a Samurai which pulls film vertically and I tape the film can with foil to encode 250 speed for Tri-X.

An Olympus Pen would be a lot of fun to shoot as well. But then you will tend to see pictures in a vertical format (better for magazine covers but might not feel familiar).

Then I develop in Dektol 1:9
Click to expand...

No more new cameras. No more new cameras. No more new cameras! :D
 
It’s just a tool to achieve an artistic vision... in this case it’s good. But if you have a 24mm lens and can mask the viewfinder in your mind, great. I just can’t do it. A pocket instamatic also works, so does a Minox. But those require additional equipment (reels tanks).
 
Bill Burk said:
It’s just a tool to achieve an artistic vision... in this case it’s good. But if you have a 24mm lens and can mask the viewfinder in your mind, great. I just can’t do it. A pocket instamatic also works, so does a Minox. But those require additional equipment (reels tanks).
Click to expand...
I'm also lost when it comes to mentally masking the viewfinder, so I'm resigned to cropping after the fact. And that's fine, I'm trying to loosen up a bit anyway. I appreciate the advice, Bill.
 
If you have a camera that permits you to change viewing screens, see if you can find a screen - a scratched one would probably be fine - that you can mark up for the purpose.
Be careful that marking up the screen doesn't affect the accuracy of the metering, or if it does, that you compensate for it.
 
I have an idea.!

You know those auxiliary rangefinders... get a 135mm finder and put it on the hotshoe and shoot with a 24mm lens.

If you don’t have one let me know. I do and would be happy to donate it to your project.
 
You could see if you can find some traffic surveillance film .....
 
Would extending the development time substantially followed by an application of Barry Thornton's Bleach-Bleach-And-Monobath technique [1] on the resulting negatives give negatives with normal contrast but larger-than-normal grain?

1. http://sannyassa.co.uk/barry-thorntons-writings/
 
Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
I wouldn't. The OP wants big grain.
Click to expand...
But if that's fairly easily achievable by just developing longer or using another easily available developer, wouldn't it complicate matters to include processing steps? I mean, it would make sense to try the easy options first.
I also don't see how a bleach and redevelop procedure would emphasize grain. If anything, the opposite is more likely. The exception would be a redevelopment that actually adds density, such as chromium intensification.
 
Many good suggestions here. I would not focus on enlarging the grain of the film. One day you will be sorry you did that.

Consider getting a point light for your enlarger, or an enlarger with a point light. These give a fantastic large and sharp grain.

Otherwise get a camera that uses 110 film
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:
Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom