Incandescent/halogen ban?

[MattKing]

Why the "ban" on incandescent bulbs? If LED bulbs are better then everyone will quit buying incandescent bulbs and go LED right? What is wrong with letting everyone choose what they want to light their homes with?

"Tragedy of the Commons" comes to mind.
Or more generally, people will rarely prefer long term wide ranging benefits over short term individual benefits.
Particularly in commercial or institutional settings.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

CFLs are off the shelves, also. It's a full-on win for the LED lobby. Whatever you say about China, all LED A19 bulbs are loaded with components made in China.

Very sensible to replace a fully-recyclable glass+metal light bulb with one made from a couple of dozen electrical components in a plastic shell. Good for the environment.

But - hey! the Life Cycle Assessment says LED bulbs have a much lower environmental impact. So whatever one may naively think may be completely wrongheaded.

Until landfills are overflowing with unrecyclable LED bulbs.

So we take the stuff that's in the ground, reprocess it into light bulbs, and then bury all the stuff again when they burn out. So they are recycled.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If you have a group of people openly discussing something, eventually something characterized as "political" will arise.



There's a story that the light bulb manufacturers colluded to make the lifespan of the bulbs shorter. You've heard that, right?
Well, the LEDs in the new bulbs will work for 50000 hours or some such ridiculous number, but the second-rate electronic components that power them won't last more than 5000. They'll soon find replacements that won't last 3000 hours.

I;ve had numerous LEDs go bad on me and had to return to Home Depot. CFLs are worse of all the bunch. They take too long to turn on and continue to glow when you shut them off. I thought I was having a stroke the first time that happened.

 

[Don_ih]

Or more generally, people will rarely prefer long term wide ranging benefits over short term individual benefits.
Particularly in commercial or institutional settings.

Whether or not an LED bulb is a long term benefit or a short term one depends on how you look at it. In one way, an LED bulb lasts longer and uses less electricity than an incandescent bulb. But in another way, an LED bulb is 100% garbage when it stops working. An incandescent bulb, on the other hand, is simply metal and glass, with a bit of resin. You can crush up a billion of them with hardly any unrecoverable material.
Who will be dismantling all the little circuit boards in all the LED bulbs?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Why the "ban" on incandescent bulbs? If LED bulbs are better then everyone will quit buying incandescent bulbs and go LED right? What is wrong with letting everyone choose what they want to light their homes with?

That's a political question. Go stand in the corner and repeat ten times:
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.
I will be good.

 

[DREW WILEY]

This is the era of big box distribution determining what gets manufactured and marketed for home use, which equates into lowest bidder bait and switch junk, which in turn equates into far more rapid product failure, with consequent replacement purchasing far more often. Home Depot almost single-handedly bankrupted GE's entire consumer lighting division by talking them into making a massive production run just for them, then suddenly backing out at the last minute and awarding it to Phillips instead. Later, GE simply decided to get out of lighting entirely, now that things were becoming a low bidder free-fall. It's a dog eat dog world out there. Others have concentrated on the higher end architectural lighting market instead, where a reputation for quality and service is the key to success. And those kinds of bulbs last a lot lot longer.

But the national mandate toward LED's replacing traditional tungsten bulbs is directly related to our energy grid becoming rapidly outpaced by both growth and climate change.
Add the push for electrified vehicles, and all that extra electricity has to come from somewhere, and any realistic form of energy conservation like low-E lighting factors into that. Here in CA, hydroelectric once supplied nearly all the State's energy demands. But with an exploding population combined with diminished average snow and runoff, hydroelectric turbines are now starved. It's even worse in the Southwest, with the dams on the Colorado River barely filled. Something has to give.

And this is NOT just a political question. They can debate and probably lie about options. But every one of us faces the consequences, whether planning the cost of a trip, or having the power suddenly go out during a darkroom printing session. Heck, ever hiked through a mountain blizzard at night with a flashlight and an exhausted set of AA batteries? A little LED headlamp is so much more convenient.

Ever spend 8 hours using a set of hot lights at your copy stand? They are hot and sweaty, even bad for the artwork, and consume a lot of wattage. LED panels do it cool with low electrical demand, but do cost quite a bit more for decent quality. I bought mid-level LED panels for my own use - about $700 for the pair.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why the "ban" on incandescent bulbs? If LED bulbs are better then everyone will quit buying incandescent bulbs and go LED right? What is wrong with letting everyone choose what they want to light their homes with?

The bans came in because of massive public pressure to reduce the use of electricity. The bans hit a hard spot when it was discovered that all incandescent bulbs could not be eliminated because at the time there were no replacements for speciality bulbs use as darkroom safe lights, enlarger lights, refrigerator lights, oven lights, ... so loop hole were added to the bans.

 

[DREW WILEY]

All the darkroom lights, refrigerator and appliance bulbs, etc, in the whole world are just a flea on a mouse. Compare that to street lighting anywhere, or routine residential lighting, and that's where the energy savings are realistic. My immediate hometown area - not really a town at all, but a giant river canyon - supplied 80% of the State energy when I was growing up. Most of LA's power came from a single big hydroelectric plant; and now there's a gigantic parallel one deep inside a mountain nearby. A huge power plant tunnel was drilled 21 ft in diameter through solid diorite, far harder than granite, about a thousand feet feet below my own property, seven miles long overall, just for sake of a second power plant using the same dam, among the 10 or so hydro plants in the general area. That river, the San Joaquin, is called "the hardest working water in the world" for a reason. But with the exception of an abundant runoff year like this one will be, many of the turbines have been idle. Where is all the darn electricity going to come from if everyone buys a Tesla and needs an air conditioner just to stay alive as the summers get hotter than ever? Burning more coal? Covering half the earth with solar panels, which require a tremendous amount of energy just to make? There are no easy answers. But tungsten lightbulbs are already standing in the guillotine line. Diesel trucks are being "invited" too. LA should be put on a water and energy diet and learn to live like a kangaroo rat instead, although Freestyle Photo Supply should be exempted.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

This is the era of big box distribution determining what gets manufactured and marketed for home use, which equates into lowest bidder bait and switch junk, which in turn equates into far more rapid product failure, with consequent replacement purchasing far more often. Home Depot almost single-handedly bankrupted GE's entire consumer lighting division by talking them into making a massive production run just for them, then suddenly backing out at the last minute and awarding it to Phillips instead. Later, GE simply decided to get out of lighting entirely, now that things were becoming a low bidder free-fall. It's a dog eat dog world out there. Others have concentrated on the higher end architectural lighting market instead, where a reputation for quality and service is the key to success. And those kinds of bulbs last a lot lot longer.

But the national mandate toward LED's replacing traditional tungsten bulbs is directly related to our energy grid becoming rapidly outpaced by both growth and climate change.
Add the push for electrified vehicles, and all that extra electricity has to come from somewhere, and any realistic form of energy conservation like low-E lighting factors into that. Here in CA, hydroelectric once supplied nearly all the State's energy demands. But with an exploding population combined with diminished average snow and runoff, hydroelectric turbines are now starved. It's even worse in the Southwest, with the dams on the Colorado River barely filled. Something has to give.

And this is NOT just a political question. They can debate and probably lie about options. But every one of us faces the consequences, whether planning the cost of a trip, or having the power suddenly go out during a darkroom printing session. Heck, ever hiked through a mountain blizzard at night with a flashlight and an exhausted set of AA batteries? A little LED headlamp is so much more convenient.

Ever spend 8 hours using a set of hot lights at your copy stand? They are hot and sweaty, even bad for the artwork, and consume a lot of wattage. LED panels do it cool with low electrical demand, but do cost quite a bit more for decent quality. I bought mid-level LED panels for my own use - about $700 for the pair.

There's a conflict. If LED's reduce demand on the grid, electric vehicles raise it by a lot more. We got to make up our minds.

 

[Don_ih]

There's a conflict. If LED's reduce demand on the grid, electric vehicles raise it by a lot more. We got to make up our minds.

Don't worry. The fuel not burned by your electric vehicle can a power generator you can use to charge it.

 

[Cinema]

I’m going back to candles at night when my incandescents run out, not a joke
Hit the LEDs with a spectrometer—the light quality is total garbage and should not be legal due to wildlife and human sleep disruption.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Don't worry. The fuel not burned by your electric vehicle can a power generator you can use to charge it.

The problem is the current grid can't handle the additional electric load. So more power plants have to be built to provide the power to charge the electric vehicle batteries.

Someone has to figure out how to run an EV motor with power savings like an LED light has over incandescent bulbs. Or convert sea water to power them.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I’m going back to candles at night when my incandescents run out, not a joke
Hit the LEDs with a spectrometer—the light quality is total garbage and should not be legal due to wildlife and human sleep disruption.

Shut off the lights when you go to sleep.

 

[Sirius Glass]

All the darkroom lights, refrigerator and appliance bulbs, etc, in the whole world are just a flea on a mouse. Compare that to street lighting anywhere, or routine residential lighting, and that's where the energy savings are realistic. My immediate hometown area - not really a town at all, but a giant river canyon - supplied 80% of the State energy when I was growing up. Most of LA's power came from a single big hydroelectric plant; and now there's a gigantic parallel one deep inside a mountain nearby. A huge power plant tunnel was drilled 21 ft in diameter through solid diorite, far harder than granite, about a thousand feet feet below my own property, seven miles long overall, just for sake of a second power plant using the same dam, among the 10 or so hydro plants in the general area. That river, the San Joaquin, is called "the hardest working water in the world" for a reason. But with the exception of an abundant runoff year like this one will be, many of the turbines have been idle. Where is all the darn electricity going to come from if everyone buys a Tesla and needs an air conditioner just to stay alive as the summers get hotter than ever? Burning more coal? Covering half the earth with solar panels, which require a tremendous amount of energy just to make? There are no easy answers. But tungsten lightbulbs are already standing in the guillotine line. Diesel trucks are being "invited" too. LA should be put on a water and energy diet and learn to live like a kangaroo rat instead, although Freestyle Photo Supply should be exempted.

But All the darkroom lights, refrigerator and appliance bulbs, etc, are needed to catch this groups attention. We have to start somewhere.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The problem is the current grid can't handle the additional electric load. So more power plants have to be built to provide the power to charge the electric vehicle batteries.

Someone has to figure out how to run an EV motor with power savings like an LED light has over incandescent bulbs. Or convert sea water to power them.

Aside with the moderators' approval: The political approach is to blame the other party. Warning! Cut that political crap out now! Back to normal thread posting.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Lots and lots of research going on, Alan. Our local Chevron refinery has a twenty yr head start of hydrogen fuel technology, and some of it is already in commercial vehicle use. But wider scale applications are going to require a lot of new distribution infrastructure. Some of that has already been approved and funded at the Fed level. Another big leap in progress might be to switch from horses to camels, since desertification itself is quickly spreading in the West. In the South and East, just invent turbines which work in tornadoes.

 

[ic-racer]

I tried to research on the internet this but did not find the answer. Are any of these bulbs exempt?
Just trying to figure out how many thousands of dollars in lights I'll need.

Lights in enlargers
Flash light bulbs
Indicator lights for electronic equipment
Automobile lights
Model railway lights
Lights in medical equipment
Lights in densitometers
Flashbulbs
Lights in microscopes
Lights in projectors

 

[Steve906]

I tried to research on the internet this but did not find the answer. Are any of these bulbs exempt?
Just trying to figure out how many thousands of dollars in lights I'll need.

Lights in enlargers
Flash light bulbs
Indicator lights for electronic equipment
Automobile lights
Model railway lights
Lights in medical equipment
Lights in densitometers
Flashbulbs
Lights in microscopes
Lights in projectors

I can't quite see why any of these would need exemption, except medical equipment that I know nothing about. Obviously I would like to see enlarger type bulbs available for a few years, but I bought a 240v 75w Photolux lamp and two 12v 100w halogens as spares a few years ago and they are still sitting on a shelf.
Incandescent and CFL have been unavailable in the UK for some time except for 'special duty'. The Photolux actually says on the box - not suitable for household illumination ! (Can still be purchased)
The only other I can think of (that has already been mentioned) is oven lights. Also explosive environments, but these are generally just well enclosed versions of any form.
The big problem to me for household illumination is that most of the LED's available are cheap-ish Ch----- C--p.
See Big Clive on YTb. Many are over-driven to achieve unrealistic specs resulting in poor lifespan and dangerous failure modes, and its hard, even if spending more money, to actually get something decent.

 

[Paul Howell]

Considering that enlargers and old fashion slide projectors are such a small market, there is always the possibility that bulbs that are not "outlawed" will be discontinued as it will not be economically feasible to continue production. I use standard LED bulbs in my D3, but do have a few 75 and 150 watt bulbs in case I need to print grade 4. I will buy a few bulbs, enough to last me the rest of my life.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Many relatively modern enlarger and slide projector reflector halogen bulbs also had other lighting applications, and still do. The only difference between the ones related to household low voltage lighting that sell for two or three dollars apiece in ordinary retail outlets, and the kind I use in the lab is the sheer quality distinction and uptick in price. What were those Omega 4X5 colorheads? - ELC bulbs as I recall. I still probably have one or two of those on hand. But they can be purchased all kinds of places, in various quality levels. The good ones are going to be reserve stock from the US made GE commercial division, current Japanese made Ushio, and a Euro equivalent I can't recall at the moment. The cheapo home center varieties are all Chinese mfg. Some decent bulbs are also being made in Mexico.

Substituting an LED bulb just doesn't make sense to me. The focal distance and diffusion chamber is designed with a particular bulb in mind. Or are you referring to some kind of old condenser head?

 

[ags2mikon]

How exactly are you using standard LED bulbs in your enlarger?

 

[VinceInMT]

I went to Adorama to look for bulbs for my 23c II.... havent used it wtih the plain bulb... it came burnt out..

I was assumed that the 23c II used a PH-111A bulb as the lamp holder says DRAKE 75w 125V

But cant find anything other then PH-211 on adorama and am utterly confused..


But am also confused on how the hell those bulbs are removed from the lamp socket

I have a 23C which, I think, uses the same bulb as yours. I was having an issue with uneven illumination which, after a bunch of messing around, concluded it was bulb-related. I was using an Eiko. When that was no longer available I bought a 6-pack from B&H but don’t know what brand they are. The issue wasn’t improved. However, just this week I received one from Freestyle which they advertise as a Sylvania and it is slightly different from the others, shorter I in terms of the glass bulb. Anyway. I installed it and it looks better but I haven’t run a print yet.

That said, those bulbs are bayonet style. To remove them, press them into the socket and turn counter clockwise. Since it’s been in there a while, there could be some corrosion that makes it difficult to remove so I would suggest using a towel or something instead of your hand in case the glass should break.

 

[awty]

Your country. All retailers are to stop selling them by August.

They were banned here about 10 years ago and you can still go to the shop and by them and if they dont have the right one you can get it on line for delivery next day. There is probably enough stock to last another 100 years if they stop manufacturing.

 

[Sirius Glass]

They were banned here about 10 years ago and you can still go to the shop and by them and if they dont have the right one you can get it on line for delivery next day. There is probably enough stock to last another 100 years if they stop manufacturing.

This is my experience. I always start with one of our sponsors: FreeStyle.

 

[ic-racer]

The reason I ask is according to Wiki, in the USA the ***** administration did not outlaw specialty bulbs, but the ***** administration has outlawed all incandescent lamps. Or that is what I read, but no "Law" I have ever seen, nor explanation of the ban.



2007, **** Administration: Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007

Many bulbs, including specialty bulbs, three-way bulbs, chandelier bulbs, refrigerator bulbs, plant grow lights and others, are exempt from the law's requirements.

Now, **** Administration: ( ??? No one knows ???)