Imperial v US liquid measurement

[Steve Smith]

Steve, I refer to 1/1000" as a thou.

So do I.

By the way, your claim is correct. Southend was indeed sunny yesterday!



Steve.

 

[Andy K]

By the way, your claim is correct. Southend was indeed sunny yesterday!



Steve.

It still is today. This morning was glorious, then we had an hour of hailstones, and now the sun is out again. Sunny Sahfend, you can't beat it!



How did the gig go? I could't come due to still 'celebrating' middle age.

 

[Steve Smith]

How did the gig go? I could't come due to still 'celebrating' middle age.

The gig was excellent. The place was packed out.

I'm still recovering though as I didn't get home until 6:00 this morning and I have not slept yet!

Steve.

 

[PhotoJim]

North Amearica, South America, its all the same continent inhabited by Americans.

So, the Canadians, Mexicans and Colombians are Americans...

What about those in the USA? Do you call them "United Statians" when you mean to be explicit?

I suppose the people in Northern Ireland are happy to know that, since most "Americans" think they live in Great Britain, we can now abolish the phrase "United Kingdom".

 

[RobC]

So, the Canadians, Mexicans and Colombians are Americans...

What about those in the USA? Do you call them "United Statians" when you mean to be explicit?

I suppose the people in Northern Ireland are happy to know that, since most "Americans" think they live in Great Britain, we can now abolish the phrase "United Kingdom".

The people in Northern Ireland are British just like I am. I'm also English. They are not. They are also Northern Irish. I am not. So you may be Canadian but you are also American.

I'm getting the impression I may have inadvertently committed the ultimate insult by calling a Canadian, American. But never mind because once we have unified into a standard naming convention, perhaps Earthlings, it won't matter. Especially not to those such as yourself wanting a unified system to save any confusion.

 

[PhotoJim]

I'm getting the impression I may have inadvertently committed the ultimate insult by calling a Canadian, American.

No insult taken, but since the word "American" by your usage is ambiguous, I'd suggest following the usage in the Americas (which is okay to say - "America" refers to the US over here; "The Americas" refers to North and South America; if you want to refer to North America specifically, call it thus).

If the BBC referred to the "American embassy" it would mean the US embassy. If it meant to refer to the embassy of Canada, it would call it the Canadian embassy. Until we form a North-and-South-American-wide unified bloc like the EU, we don't have to worry about coming up with a term for that, but until the EU adds most of Asia, you don't have to worry either.

Many Canadians (I'd even wager most) will take offense if you call them American. We don't mean any disrespect to the US by this, but we are distinct, with our own sovereign government, our own ideology (much more liberal, to use the American [as in US] nomenclature), and its own ideals. I think you'll find that Canadians are much more like the British than the (US) Americans are, which probably isn't a huge surprise if you think about it, given our long relationship with the UK.

I have heard many stories about Canadian tourists in the UK receiving mediocre service or attention until the person with whom they are dealing realizes (realises ) he or she is dealing with a Canadian, and then the relationship warms up immensely. I didn't have that experience myself in my UK visit, but I've heard the story more than once, so it seems that the average British person has a more positive feeling for Canadians than (US) Americans.

(Notice how my constant insertion of [US], which with your more casual use of the word "American" is required to be more explicit, is somewhat annoying? )

If it makes you feel better, I'm equally pedantic about tea (I despise how herbal "teas", which should be called by their own word like tisane, like the French use, have diluted the use of the word "tea" to the point where I have to specify "real tea" to get tea made from the leaves of the tea plant. I can only hope that one day somebody makes a beverage made from the ground beans of a non-coffee plant and the word "coffee" gets equally diluted. )

Jim

 

[Andy K]

Until we form a North-and-South-American-wide unified bloc like the EU, we don't have to worry about coming up with a term for that, but until the EU adds most of Asia, you don't have to worry either.

The 'north American' version already exists, its called the USA. The only difference is that they are US citizens first and Texans, Oklahomans, Kansans etc, second, whereas over here we are English, French, German, Italian first, European very much second.

 

[PhotoJim]

The 'north American' version already exists, its called the USA. The only difference is that they are US citizens first and Texans, Oklahomans, Kansans etc, second, whereas over here we are English, French, German, Italian first, European very much second.

Well, it's not quite the same, until Louisiana and North Dakota issue their own passports and provides their own military.

 

[gregrudd]

I always thought that the US was one of the first signatories to the SI convention which really means the US was one of the first Metric countries along with its close ally France. (Remember, it was France who helped a group of rebels who didn't believe in the rule of law in a certain 13 British colonies) The only difference is that the US never fully converted outside the scientific community. As far as countries that have converted to Metric, Australia would have to have had one of the most successful conversions to the metric system of measurement in the western world. Here in AU it is also illegal to use in building and construction any other form of measurement other than S.I. and has been so since 1974-5. If you ask any older Australian whether they would prefer to use metric or the old imperial they would unanimously say metric.

 

[RobC]

It really comes down to age. If you were born and went to school after metrication, you are probably wondering why all the old fogies are blathering about imperial units. If you are like me who was at school when metrication happened you probably don't care either way because you learnt both systems and if you are a grumpy old fart who was brain dead before metrication happened then you won't have long to put up with it.

 

[Andy K]

I have yet to meet anyone from an English speaking country who automatically measures themselves in metric units. We are all so many feet tall and weigh so many pounds (or in Britain, stones). Even Tony Blair, the great proponent of imposing metrication, when asked replied in feet and inches and stones and pounds.

 

[Steve Smith]

I think it will be a long time before Britain goes completely metric.

I use metric for engineering drawings, etc. but use feet and inches for any building work I do. I think this is common with most people in Britain over a certain age (about 40 perhaps).

There is a law in Britain (or at least England) that says that road signs must be shown in miles or yards. I remember a few years ago, a council had to change some signs they put up showing distances in metres.



Steve.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I'm starting to look for a scale that reads a very small total capacity, maybe 25 to 75 grams, but accurate down to .01 gram for finicky things like phenidone, iodide, pinacryptol ... where small amounts are used.

C

I use an Ohaus Centigram, quad beam scale. That's what you need, it fits your requirements exactly. Now, I can't say that I know if they are still made. I bought mine in the seventies.

 

[FilmIs4Ever]

Another problem I have with the metricization of the world is that a lot of formulae, especially photographic formulae are in U.S/Imperial measures. Converting them to metrics often has the effect of rounding certain ingredients, which essentially changes the formulae, perhaps to an appreciable, noticeable extent.

Eliminating or outlawing customary scales, graduates, etc. essentially outlaws the correct mixing of these formulae.

On the other hand, there are many formulae that were natively originated using metric measure. They should be mixed in metrics.


The BEST solution is that taken for some of the pyro formulae, which is unitless, using instead ratios of different solutions, like "1 part water, 2 parts stock solution A, 3 parts stock solution B". Too bad all photochemicals can't have mixing instructions that take this route.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Nah.....

Another problem I have with the metricization of the world is that a lot of formulae, especially photographic formulae are in U.S/Imperial measures. Converting them to metrics often has the effect of rounding certain ingredients, which essentially changes the formulae, perhaps to an appreciable, noticeable extent.

Eliminating or outlawing customary scales, graduates, etc. essentially outlaws the correct mixing of these formulae.

On the other hand, there are many formulae that were natively originated using metric measure. They should be mixed in metrics.


The BEST solution is that taken for some of the pyro formulae, which is unitless, using instead ratios of different solutions, like "1 part water, 2 parts stock solution A, 3 parts stock solution B". Too bad all photochemicals can't have mixing instructions that take this route.

I can't imagine any photography formula that would change enough by mathematically "rounding" that you would ever know it. Worst case, you might get 61.48 grams of sodium carbonate, which is perfectly doable with a scale balance. Or just use 60 or 62, there will be no difference. Even at the developer side, 5.75 is not functionally different than 6 when mixed in a liter of water.

If I am wrong, the worst case is that you might find a slight adjustment necessary in your processes. But there are so many variables in processing, I doubt a few hundredths of a gram of a chemical would be noticable.

ALL formulas could be written as you suggest. However, with 1 part benzotrizole, you might wind up with a lifetime supply of developer.

 

[PhotoJim]

I don't think anyone is espousing that we abolish obsolete forms of measurement. All of my graduated cylinders in my darkroom have metric on them, but also have US and Imperial measurement. It is occasionally convenient to measure in an obsolete system (for example, mixing Kodak stop bath). If there were a formula that would work best in US or Imperial measurements, I would mix it that way.

However, I tend to agree with Paul that the accuracy of photographic formulae is seldom so important. With the scale that I have, using Paul's example, I could round 61.48 grams of sodium carbonate to 61.5. The only chemicals were anal amounts of precision are required are ones like phenidone, and it was a late enough entrant into photographic science that all the formulae I've seen that use it have been in metric since the beginning.

By the way, most, if not all, stock solutions use ratios. PMK is 1:2:100. D-76 is 1:0, 1:1 or 1:3. These ratios are useful irrespective of the system you are using, although systems like 1:2:100 are much easier to use on base-10 systems like metric.