Ilford, the latest news

[TPPhotog]

Yep that sums up the decline of virtually every company here in the UK, when will management learn

When will companies replace "management" with leadership?..EC

Good point. But first they would have to find leaders which would mean finding people with character. UK companies have also been very pro-active of getting rid of people with character in favour of followers that won't upset the poor management discissions.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Yeah, you are right, but it aint just business, look at the state of our UK politics (I've already done religion today....and Leicas (same thing)). Is democracy dead in a country of career MP sheep, herded by party whips!

I just pray that Ilford can hold it together for the long haul.

Tom

 

[Foto Ludens]

Is democracy dead in a country of career MP sheep, herded by party whips!

The problem with modern democracy is that it is based on competition, not opinion. Elections are won and lost, polls keep counts as soccer fans keep track of the world cup. So what, you might ask (I would)?

The problem with competition is that it leads to monopoly. Karl Marx said this in relation to business, and I agree with him, and apply this generally. Parties and candidates compete to gain power, and once there struggle to estabilish themselves. Once estabilished, competition has filled its purpose and is abolished. Representative democracy based on competition quickly loses its democratic ideals and becomes an aristocracy.

Take the current U.S. elections, for example: How many people here are aware that presidential candidates David Cobb (Green Party) and Michael Badnarik (Libertarian) were arrested on October 9 for attempting to participate in the presidential debate? Not many, I would say, for the 2 parties that have already estabilished themselves in power have kept this very undisclosed.

I say this with a profound ignorance of U.K politics, so take it as a general comment and with a grain of salt.

Also, sorry if I have taken this thread further off topic.

André

 

[TPPhotog]

Tom I think democracy died many years ago. Remember when we would see a politicians face in the newspaper or on TV and would know who they were and what they stood for. Now a characterless face appears and no-one has the faintest idea of who they are or what party they represent.

I can't comment on Leica's as I just look in envy at the guy who's usually wearing it as a madalian to prove he can afford it

Andre I don't think Les will feel this is going too off topic (well I hope not and all threads do in the end).

You've got some valid points there and I do find it interesting that Karl Marx seems to have nailed many things that have happend in recent years in the Western world. Interesting considering the societies most of his work was based on.

In the UK we no longer have any distinct lines between parties and I'd go so far as to say that socialism doesn't even exist here except in tiny parties that have no chance of getting a seat anywhere. Sadly looking at the UK and Europe there is a worrying trend towards nationalism and even facism.

 

[Aggie]

Yep that sums up the decline of virtually every company here in the UK, when will management learn

When will companies replace "management" with leadership?..EC

When will accountants and their bottom line of profits at all cost, be replaced with management that gives a dam n.

15 years ago i got upset when at the HMO we had an 18 year old receptionist was able to order the medical tests, done by another nurses aide of 18 years, who then diagonosed my sons strep throat. The nurses aide took out an alrready signed perscription slip to take to their in house pharmacy. NO DR< at all. Knowing my son's history, I demanded to see a DR. I was told no, it was not cost effect. After I told off the two 18 year olds, and threatend to turn them into every single medical exam board, and law enforment agency for practicing wihtout a license, I did get to see a DR.

Bit businesses are the same way. Having employees are not cost effective. It is better to outsource and get rid of those in house employees. My hubbies first week at his new job is this week. He was fortunate enough to be picked up permenantely by the new company (IBM). He was put in charge on the IBM side of overseeing the data center move. He has also been told of his long term assignments, and some training he will be doing. Down side to his old company is Dan knows how the whole system runs. He has been in on the meetings where they are going to try and sabotague the whole process. well they do, and it isn't a hardware problem, and it will cost them even more to have IBM fix minor problems. Dan is loving it, each time they (Williams Sonoma) does something stupid to halt the progess, he just smiles and says CA Ching. His old boss asked why he isn't loyal to Williams sonoma just yesterday. Dan replied, "Why, they in the last 2 years have cut out all benefits, taken away my bonus, taken away any more stock options, I say no raises, and effectively lost over @425K a year, then I get laid off because I made too much money, and you want me to be loyal to those who threw me out?" The manager today got news that he is in the next round of lay offs, and his group is not being picked up by any new company. Can we say pay back is a B***h. Long term it is going to cost Williams Sonoma with all the changes they want just from this week, double what they had anticpated, and more than if they had not out sourced.

 

[TPPhotog]

Aggie, Been there and done that (well from the receiving end)!!

What gets stuck in my throat in the UK is the major company that does the audits for private and public organizations is always being promoted for their work in supporting charities and other good causes. Of course their main business is recommending outsourcing, closures, sell offs and redundancies. Of course they are reaping in the mega sums of cash and it's not their company that fails when their advice is crap. Supporting charities .... they effin should do they put people in line for needing those charities services in the first place.

Sorry that turned into a rant

 

[Foto Ludens]

Yeah, it seems the whole world suffers from myopia...

To extend your rant:
Philanthropy is annonymous. Showing off your "good deeds" is pure P.R.

 

[TPPhotog]

Yeah, it seems the whole world suffers from myopia...

To extend your rant:
Philanthropy is annonymous. Showing off your "good deeds" is pure P.R.

That's not a rant ... but them I'm a little biased cause I agree with you

 

[Brac]

When will accountants and their bottom line of profits at all cost, be replaced with management that gives a dam n.

Bit businesses are the same way. Having employees are not cost effective. It is better to outsource and get rid of those in house employees.

When I worked for the British Computer Society (a charity) they increasingly outsourced everything they could think of even some despatch, all at enormous cost. The service they got was frequently shoddy and often the BCS staff had to put the errors right. But it didn't matter because they were making so much money from their European Computer Driving Licence franchise that these expenses were more than covered.

Having worked for several charities over the years I can tell you that sadly some of them can treat their staff just as badly as any profit making organisation.

 

[BlackandWhite40]

The range of chemical products will be back in the shops quite soon and will continue to be made, in fact no product has been discontinued.


There are a few exceptions to this - Washaid, Hypam Hardener, Ilfoclean, Phenisol Developer and Ilfostop Pro 5L are all to be discontinued once stocks are depleted.
No decision has yet been made regarding Powdered Chemistry.

 

[Les McLean]

The range of chemical products will be back in the shops quite soon and will continue to be made, in fact no product has been discontinued.


No decision has yet been made regarding Powdered Chemistry.

The information you have is wrong, I have been assured by a very good scource within Ilford that the powdered chemistry will continue to be made, in fact a new batch is being made at Mobberley now.

 

[BlackandWhite40]

The information you have is wrong, I have been assured by a very good scource within Ilford that the powdered chemistry will continue to be made, in fact a new batch is being made at Mobberley now.


Les, we will have to agree to differ on this one!
-but I think your source might want to double check his/her information!!

 

[lee]

The information you have is wrong, I have been assured by a very good scource within Ilford that the powdered chemistry will continue to be made, in fact a new batch is being made at Mobberley now.


Les, we will have to agree to differ on this one!
-but I think your source might want to double check his/her information!!

we know Les's source, BlackandWhite40, do you have a source you could give us?

lee\c

 

[BlackandWhite40]

For obvious reasons I can not disclose my source, but I can guarantee that the information is 100%. Whilst the liquid chemicals are being manufactured again, the powders are not - at the moment.

 

[Aggie]

For obvious reasons I can not disclose my source, but I can guarantee that the information is 100%. Whilst the liquid chemicals are being manufactured again, the powders are not - at the moment.

We've had a worker at the Ilford plant here in the past give us updates. Les knows the internal people high up. He works their booths at various fairs. It would seeme evasive to just say you have obvious reasons when there doesn't seem to be a good reason for it. This tends to discredit a person as alarmist.

 

[BlackandWhite40]

I am certainly not an alarmist, but I do know what is going on in the UK plant. My only intention is to ensure that you are receiving the correct information.
I apologise for being so 'secretive' but I'm not sure how much I am allowed to say! ........Perhaps it's better then that I say nothing !

 

[dentan]

To learn about Ilford's financial problems regarding their analogue products really saddened me. One step further to the grave, maybe one of the last ones, for analogue photography were my thoughts in my darker moments. Now there is hope!!!

I use Ilford's Delta 100 and 400 (expose them at ISO 64 and 250 and develop them in Xtol) and am very, very pleased with the results. Late this summer I bought a Canon FTb (manufactured in 1976) and this camera offers just what I need when it comes to B&W. On and off I use my very first SLR, an Edixa-Reflex B (1958), which does almost the same as FTb with the exception of ´metering the light. I also use an Olympus XAII, which has a great lense, as pocket camera and that functions very much as the FTb. My "modern" camera, Canon T70 from 1984, is nowadays used for colour only.

Well, that was a lot about cameras, but rest assured that I keep my fingers crossed for the survival of Ilford's analogue products!

 

[BlackandWhite40]

Any sign of the powders chemicals from ILFORD?

 

[Dave Miller]

Any sign of the powders chemicals from ILFORD?

I rather thought that you were going to tell us?

 

[rjr]

Dave,

;-)

No based fact, just the ordinary net rumour from a german forum where the german Ilford representative took part in and didn´t object to what a dutch dealer wrote - I know that they were engaged in dealing with several subcontractors such as Calbe Fotochemie (the former Orwo plant in Calbe) and Champion in the Uk.

According to Robert Vonk (the dutch dealer) Champion is in the game to take over the Ilford chemical portfolio.

 

[Annemarieke]

rjr,
You can ask Robert here, he is a member of APUG.

Anne Marieke

 

[BlackandWhite40]

......but as yet there has been very little progress with regard to Powdered Chemistry. This is still unavailable at the present time.

 

[Robert Brummitt]

Truly, only time will tell how things will become. But, I will be grateful for Ilfords endurance.

 

[BlackandWhite40]

The information you have is wrong, I have been assured by a very good scource within Ilford that the powdered chemistry will continue to be made, in fact a new batch is being made at Mobberley now.


I don't think I was wrong - do you !?

 

[FrankB]

AP "Answers +" page 5 Feb 2005:

"A decision is expected in early February with regards to who will become the new owners of Ilford Imaging..."

"A source at Ilford has informed me (Chris Gatcum) that Ilford's own management buy-out team wants to continue with the current product lines if they become the new owners..."

"Unfortunately, there are other elements interested in acquiring the business, but not as a going concern. If this happens then Ilford as we know it may change..."

"I would like to think that this change would not happen overnight, but there are, at present, no guarantees."

Let's wish Ilford's MBO team every success in their negotiations.