Ilford processing Drum failure

[RJ-]

Hi

Came back to the darkroom to find that my Ilford 8x10inch processing drum has been slow leaking. Thankful from years of drilling in, the drum was stood on a processing tray.

Any recommendations for an inert pour in solidifying sealant which can withstand alkali/acid solvents?

Kind regards
RJ

 

[AgX]

My first choice would be Epoxy Glue.
Only substance from our range against which it has lesser resistance is Dichromate.

 

[RJ-]

My first choice would be Epoxy Glue.
Only substance from our range against which it has lesser resistance is Dichromate.

Thanks - I haven't needed to use Farmers Reducer for prints in a drum. Will the epoxy remain stable with Pyrogallol?

I've found some solvent weld for standard polyethelene pipes as an alternative for strong oxidising reagents.

 

[AgX]

Thanks - I haven't needed to use Farmers Reducer for prints in a drum. Will the epoxy remain stable with Pyrogallol?

There is no information available on Pyrogallol. But keep in mind that most tests were done with rather high concentrations of potions and over many hours, which is not done at our amateur field.
(And there is no Dichromate in Farmers Reducer.)

I've found some solvent weld for standard polyethelene pipes as an alternative for strong oxidising reagents

There is no solvent glue for polyethylene pipes, nor is polyethylene tubing typically used for piping, you likely mix it up with PVC.
Moreover, solvent glues typically have no "body", thus are good for cementing panes, but not for sealing in situ.

 

[runswithsizzers]

What is the drum made from?

I agree that epoxy is the most likely candidate, but there are some plastics that epoxy does not want to stick to. And for those plastics that epoxy does bond to, you will need access to thoroughly clean - and possibly roughen - the surface. If the leak is from a seam where two pieces of plastic were bonded together, it may be difficult to properly prepare the surface.

Here is an article about using epoxy to bond difficult plastics:
https://epoxycraft.com/news/trade-secret-using-west-system-gflex-bond-plastics-securely/

... and, another one:
https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/gluing-plastic-with-gflex-epoxy/

I have never used their G/flex epoxy, but I know the WEST system epoxies are well respected among boat builders.

 

[AgX]

And for those plastics that epoxy does bond to, you will need access to thoroughly clean - and possibly roughen - the surface.

Such plastics surfaces must be treated in way that radicals are formed.

If the leak is from a seam where two pieces of plastic were bonded together, it may be difficult to properly prepare the surface.

In such cases patching would be the appropriate way.

 

[RJ-]

Thanks AgX Not sure - I dont know what the Ilford drums are made of. Maybe they are ABs plastics?

Farmers reducers and other strong oxidising reagents will attack the solvent weld. I don't use Potassium Dichromate regularly.


Here's the solvent glue. I can't trace the leak from the outside under a water tank looking for bubbles - thinking pouring in a layer of solvent glue to seal the base from the inside of the drum?

Kind regards
RJ

 

[AgX]

I dont know what the Ilford drums are made of. Maybe they are ABs plastics?

Farmers reducers and other strong oxidising reagents will attack the solvent weld. I don't use Potassium Dichromate regularly.

I would have to look at mine. But ABS is my first thought. But basically such tanks could be made from Polycarbonate too. Both not problem for Epoxy cements.

I was slow on the uptake about Farmers Reducers, now I got your point...

 

[AgX]

Flo Plast Solvent Cement

I did not find a data-sheet, but I assume it is intented for (hard) PVC. (But then it might be applicable on PS and ABS too.)

 

[RJ-]

I would have to look at mine. But ABS is my first thought. But basically such tanks could be made from Polycarbonate too. Both not problem for Epoxy cements.

I was slow on the uptake about Farmers Reducers, now I got your point...

Thanks - it's tough trying to get the solvent glue to get all the way down to the base from the inside!

 

[MattKing]

Thanks - it's tough trying to get the solvent glue to get all the way down to the base from the inside!

Put tape on the outside, and let the glue diffuse into the crack.

 

[runswithsizzers]

per: https://www.builderdepot.co.uk/125ml-floplast-solvent-cement
"FloPlast's solvent Cement adhesive is suitable for uPVC, ABS, MuPVC and cPVC systems."

 

[AgX]

..., nor is polyethylene tubing typically used for piping, you likely mix it up with PVC.

Well, I wrote nonsense...
The effluent pipes meanwhile typically used over here in-house are indeed from PE or PP.

 

[RJ-]

It's okay - thanks for trying to help.

I tried the Floplast and poured in a centimetre and set it. Didn't work- the leak is flowing even faster and I can't tell where it is coming from even with the base newly sealed.
I think the Ilford drum tank is at the end of its useful life. It wasn't very well built compared to Paterson System 4s.

Sorry to see it consigned to the darkroom graveyard. Back to using Kodak 16 litre deep tanks ...

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Forget to repair that!
I had a JOBO 2500 system tank (with the magnet in the bottom) suffering from a similar sudden illness, the bottom just fell out, impossible to repair.
Now I have a spare system 2500 tank cover...

I have a ILFORD drum of the same size, and a CIBACHROME of twice that size, I don't use any more, if you are situated in EEC, I would trade the ILFORD for 5 HP5+/120 roll-films and the CIBACHROME for 7 rolls of HP5+/120 plus Bpost (that's both for 12 rolls)...

 

[RJ-]

Hi Georges,

Your experiences with the Jobo sound like the limited shelf life of the Ilford drum processors too. I'm in London, England - unfortunately we're not in Europe. Thanks for offering though. The 12x16inch daylight drum looks fantastic (if the bottom doesn't come apart too!)

Kind regards

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Hi Georges,

Your experiences with the Jobo sound like the limited shelf life of the Ilford drum processors too. I'm in London, England - unfortunately we're not in Europe. Thanks for offering though. The 12x16inch daylight drum looks fantastic (if the bottom doesn't come apart too!)

Kind regards

I think that the bottom of the large drum wouldn't com off as it is built totally different.
But, if you want/need one of these drums, we can work something out as Brexit may not stand in our way!

PS: Oh yes, the Brexit didn't do any good, not for the UK nor the EU, and seen from here it looked like the convulsions of a dying empire, misused by Boris for his personal glory and foreseen by the Scotts, I don't understand what really inspirited the Brexiteers...

 

[RJ-]

Thanks again Phillipe.
As the French thinker pointed out in L'Histoire de la Folie - madness has its own logic, arcane and obscure as it might be

Shame you're not closer - the postage won't make it viable. I can just see a large tank getting squashed during our copious summer strikes (including postal strikes). The drum roller's main advantage is demo'g for large format photography workshops in day light .. otherwise it's darkroom tanks and a lot more chemistry ..!

It's good to know that the larger cibachrome one has a better construction than the Ilford standard 8x10 model!

Kind regards

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Thanks again Phillipe.
As the French thinker pointed out in L'Histoire de la Folie - madness has its own logic, arcane and obscure as it might be

Shame you're not closer - the postage won't make it viable. I can just see a large tank getting squashed during our copious summer strikes (including postal strikes). The drum roller's main advantage is demo'g for large format photography workshops in day light .. otherwise it's darkroom tanks and a lot more chemistry ..!

It's good to know that the larger cibachrome one has a better construction than the Ilford standard 8x10 model!

Kind regards

Take heart...

 

[RJ-]

Final update for any future Ilford drum processor users -

These tanks are next to unrepairable - Floplast solvent cement glue cannot fix these and whatever material they are made from, they are just not as durable as polyethylene.

The bottom fell out completely. Time to move back to stainless steel ...!