Ilford processing Drum failure

Old EKTAR 05

A
Old EKTAR 05

  • 0
  • 0
  • 39
Old EKTAR 04

A
Old EKTAR 04

  • 0
  • 0
  • 38
Old EKTAR 03

A
Old EKTAR 03

  • 0
  • 0
  • 36
Old EKTAR 02

A
Old EKTAR 02

  • 0
  • 0
  • 38

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
199,830
Messages
2,797,378
Members
100,048
Latest member
Praktica_enjoyer
Recent bookmarks
0

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
Hi

Came back to the darkroom to find that my Ilford 8x10inch processing drum has been slow leaking. Thankful from years of drilling in, the drum was stood on a processing tray.

Any recommendations for an inert pour in solidifying sealant which can withstand alkali/acid solvents?

Kind regards
RJ
 

Attachments

  • 20220814_131921.jpg
    20220814_131921.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 118

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
My first choice would be Epoxy Glue.
Only substance from our range against which it has lesser resistance is Dichromate.
 
OP
OP

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
My first choice would be Epoxy Glue.
Only substance from our range against which it has lesser resistance is Dichromate.

Thanks - I haven't needed to use Farmers Reducer for prints in a drum. Will the epoxy remain stable with Pyrogallol?

I've found some solvent weld for standard polyethelene pipes as an alternative for strong oxidising reagents.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Thanks - I haven't needed to use Farmers Reducer for prints in a drum. Will the epoxy remain stable with Pyrogallol?
There is no information available on Pyrogallol. But keep in mind that most tests were done with rather high concentrations of potions and over many hours, which is not done at our amateur field.
(And there is no Dichromate in Farmers Reducer.)

I've found some solvent weld for standard polyethelene pipes as an alternative for strong oxidising reagents
There is no solvent glue for polyethylene pipes, nor is polyethylene tubing typically used for piping, you likely mix it up with PVC.
Moreover, solvent glues typically have no "body", thus are good for cementing panes, but not for sealing in situ.
 
Last edited:

runswithsizzers

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
1,843
Location
SW Missouri, USA
Format
Multi Format
What is the drum made from?

I agree that epoxy is the most likely candidate, but there are some plastics that epoxy does not want to stick to. And for those plastics that epoxy does bond to, you will need access to thoroughly clean - and possibly roughen - the surface. If the leak is from a seam where two pieces of plastic were bonded together, it may be difficult to properly prepare the surface.

Here is an article about using epoxy to bond difficult plastics:
https://epoxycraft.com/news/trade-secret-using-west-system-gflex-bond-plastics-securely/

... and, another one:
https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/gluing-plastic-with-gflex-epoxy/

I have never used their G/flex epoxy, but I know the WEST system epoxies are well respected among boat builders.
 
Last edited:

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
And for those plastics that epoxy does bond to, you will need access to thoroughly clean - and possibly roughen - the surface.
Such plastics surfaces must be treated in way that radicals are formed.

If the leak is from a seam where two pieces of plastic were bonded together, it may be difficult to properly prepare the surface.
In such cases patching would be the appropriate way.
 
OP
OP

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
Thanks AgX Not sure - I dont know what the Ilford drums are made of. Maybe they are ABs plastics?

Farmers reducers and other strong oxidising reagents will attack the solvent weld. I don't use Potassium Dichromate regularly.


Here's the solvent glue. I can't trace the leak from the outside under a water tank looking for bubbles - thinking pouring in a layer of solvent glue to seal the base from the inside of the drum?

Kind regards
RJ
 

Attachments

  • 20220814_211301.jpg
    20220814_211301.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 67

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
I dont know what the Ilford drums are made of. Maybe they are ABs plastics?

Farmers reducers and other strong oxidising reagents will attack the solvent weld. I don't use Potassium Dichromate regularly.

I would have to look at mine. But ABS is my first thought. But basically such tanks could be made from Polycarbonate too. Both not problem for Epoxy cements.

I was slow on the uptake about Farmers Reducers, now I got your point...
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Flo Plast Solvent Cement

I did not find a data-sheet, but I assume it is intented for (hard) PVC. (But then it might be applicable on PS and ABS too.)
 
OP
OP

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
I would have to look at mine. But ABS is my first thought. But basically such tanks could be made from Polycarbonate too. Both not problem for Epoxy cements.

I was slow on the uptake about Farmers Reducers, now I got your point...

Thanks - it's tough trying to get the solvent glue to get all the way down to the base from the inside!
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,669
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Thanks - it's tough trying to get the solvent glue to get all the way down to the base from the inside!

Put tape on the outside, and let the glue diffuse into the crack.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
..., nor is polyethylene tubing typically used for piping, you likely mix it up with PVC.
Well, I wrote nonsense...
The effluent pipes meanwhile typically used over here in-house are indeed from PE or PP.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
It's okay - thanks for trying to help.

I tried the Floplast and poured in a centimetre and set it. Didn't work- the leak is flowing even faster and I can't tell where it is coming from even with the base newly sealed.
I think the Ilford drum tank is at the end of its useful life. It wasn't very well built compared to Paterson System 4s.

Sorry to see it consigned to the darkroom graveyard. Back to using Kodak 16 litre deep tanks ...
 

Philippe-Georges

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
2,680
Location
Flanders Fields
Format
Medium Format
Forget to repair that!
I had a JOBO 2500 system tank (with the magnet in the bottom) suffering from a similar sudden illness, the bottom just fell out, impossible to repair.
Now I have a spare system 2500 tank cover...

I have a ILFORD drum of the same size, and a CIBACHROME of twice that size, I don't use any more, if you are situated in EEC, I would trade the ILFORD for 5 HP5+/120 roll-films and the CIBACHROME for 7 rolls of HP5+/120 plus Bpost (that's both for 12 rolls)...

ILFORD DRUM.jpg
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
Hi Georges,

Your experiences with the Jobo sound like the limited shelf life of the Ilford drum processors too. I'm in London, England - unfortunately we're not in Europe. Thanks for offering though. The 12x16inch daylight drum looks fantastic (if the bottom doesn't come apart too!)

Kind regards
 

Philippe-Georges

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
2,680
Location
Flanders Fields
Format
Medium Format
Hi Georges,

Your experiences with the Jobo sound like the limited shelf life of the Ilford drum processors too. I'm in London, England - unfortunately we're not in Europe. Thanks for offering though. The 12x16inch daylight drum looks fantastic (if the bottom doesn't come apart too!)

Kind regards

I think that the bottom of the large drum wouldn't com off as it is built totally different.
But, if you want/need one of these drums, we can work something out as Brexit may not stand in our way!

PS: Oh yes, the Brexit didn't do any good, not for the UK nor the EU, and seen from here it looked like the convulsions of a dying empire, misused by Boris for his personal glory and foreseen by the Scotts, I don't understand what really inspirited the Brexiteers...
 
OP
OP

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
Thanks again Phillipe.
As the French thinker pointed out in L'Histoire de la Folie - madness has its own logic, arcane and obscure as it might be :smile:

Shame you're not closer - the postage won't make it viable. I can just see a large tank getting squashed during our copious summer strikes (including postal strikes). The drum roller's main advantage is demo'g for large format photography workshops in day light .. otherwise it's darkroom tanks and a lot more chemistry ..!

It's good to know that the larger cibachrome one has a better construction than the Ilford standard 8x10 model!

Kind regards
 

Philippe-Georges

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
2,680
Location
Flanders Fields
Format
Medium Format
Thanks again Phillipe.
As the French thinker pointed out in L'Histoire de la Folie - madness has its own logic, arcane and obscure as it might be :smile:

Shame you're not closer - the postage won't make it viable. I can just see a large tank getting squashed during our copious summer strikes (including postal strikes). The drum roller's main advantage is demo'g for large format photography workshops in day light .. otherwise it's darkroom tanks and a lot more chemistry ..!

It's good to know that the larger cibachrome one has a better construction than the Ilford standard 8x10 model!

Kind regards

Take heart...
 
OP
OP

RJ-

Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
122
Format
Multi Format
Final update for any future Ilford drum processor users -

These tanks are next to unrepairable - Floplast solvent cement glue cannot fix these and whatever material they are made from, they are just not as durable as polyethylene.

The bottom fell out completely. Time to move back to stainless steel ...!
 

Attachments

  • 20220829_215805.jpg
    20220829_215805.jpg
    614.8 KB · Views: 70
  • 20220829_215733.jpg
    20220829_215733.jpg
    556.6 KB · Views: 74
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom