Ilford Price Increase June 1st 2011

[brian steinberger]

What I'm curious about is how come none of the other manufacturers are increasing their prices?

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes to be fair to Harman, all the "vibrations" I received from employees on both tours told me that Harman values its employees greatly and cutting labour would have been the absolute last resort.

We live in a nasty world where people make money not by adding to the wealth of the world but simply by speculation with no concern for the consequences.

pentaxuser

 

[Marco B]

We live in a nasty world where people make money not by adding to the wealth of the world but simply by speculation with no concern for the consequences.

pentaxuser

Even worse is, that they are allowed to do this with billions of borrowed / loaned money from banks, so in essence our money. :confused:

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Even worse is, that they are allowed to do this with billions of borrowed / loaned money from banks, so in essence our money. :confused:

Watch the movie 'Inside Job' some time, if you haven't already. I don't wish to derail the thread, but that there isn't legislation preventing trading in derivatives and betting against poorly performing mortgages is just utterly ludicrous. Mutual funds aren't safe anymore.

 

[pbromaghin]

...
The people who got screwed are the 20% or 58 who lost their jobs at Harmon, that's not nice. I'd rather see some products cut and nothing new in the works than to see people lose their jobs.

This is how companies go broke, cutting product development instead of cutting people.

Having been in IT for 30 years I have been on the wrong end of this 4 times. 2 of those were clearly caused by another company doing better product development than the company I was with. Both of those companies survived because they took the hard road of letting people go. After every one of those layoffs I found a better job at better pay.

 

[Uncle Bill]

I hope the silver speculators get screwed like the Hunt Brothers 30 years ago at some point soon.

Despite the price increase, I will still be using Ilford products because of their commitment to the market and the consistent quality of film and paper.

 

[jordanstarr]

If Ilford goes up any higher in price, I'm switching to Adox.

 

[ArtTwisted]

No one can complain unless there buying film in canada or a country in a similar position, FP4 at the largest photo chain in 120 WITH my student discount is over $6 per 120 roll, and thats one of the cheapest offerings. If I want to buy colour like provia 400 god help me. A 100 sheet of the cheapest ilford RC is $80 , and prices go up from that.


Its really tough, I love to support my local store, and they give me a decent discount which is nice, but even then im forced to support US stores often, unless I just want one or two rolls to test a new emulsion but the bulk orders where all the margin are is always through the states

 

[hpulley]

I would ask them to match B&H's price but their retail is probably below cost in Canada. Though even B&H had to raise prices from $3.69 to $4.25 per roll of FP4+ 120

T-max is now cheaper than Delta. HP5+ remains competitive.

 

[hpulley]

That said, in 120 there aren't really alternatives to FP4+ or Delta 3200 so what can you do? Luckily I'm still working through what I bought in January before the last increase but it is dwindling.

 

[ArtTwisted]

Foma 100 is similar to FP4 although i would prefer FP4, delta 3200 in 120 is unique.

 

[Marco B]

Watch the movie 'Inside Job' some time, if you haven't already. I don't wish to derail the thread, but that there isn't legislation preventing trading in derivatives and betting against poorly performing mortgages is just utterly ludicrous. Mutual funds aren't safe anymore.

I hope the silver speculators get screwed like the Hunt Brothers 30 years ago at some point soon.

To really see what unregulated monster we are up to, see the following quote from Dead Link Removed:

"In addition, markets are experiencing the growing impact of finance, with a significant increase in financial investment flows into commodity derivative markets in recent years.
Between 2003 and 2008, for example, institutional investors increased their investments in commodities markets from 13 billion euro in 2003 to between 170 and 205 billion euro in 2008. While the financial crisis interrupted the upward trend, financial positions approached or even exceeded their 2008 peaks on many markets in 2010 and investment by index traders in particular has increased strongly. While the debate on the relative importance of the multiple factors influencing commodities prices is still open, it is clear that price movements across different commodity markets have become more closely related, and that commodities markets have become more closely linked to financial markets."

205(!) billion euro... :eek:, up from 13... Throwing in another 20 billion euro to buy up the entire worth of the worlds yearly silver production at a price of some 25 euro per ounce, is like buying a cup of coffee at Starbucks for them.

Interestingly, you may wish to start rethinking what you are going to sign your prints in the next few years with... "Graphite" is listed as a critical resource! :confused: Using that good old worn pencil may become history in another few years. On the good site, no more new Chernobyl style graphite moderated nuclear reactors as well

Also interestingly, silver is only mildly critical compared to some of the other resources, being lower in supply risk and lower in economic relevance...

More here:
Dead Link Removed

And the full 84 page report and 223 page PDF annex to the short summary report linked entirely above:
Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed

Marco

 

[pbromaghin]

"In addition, markets are experiencing the growing impact of finance, with a significant increase in financial investment flows into commodity derivative markets in recent years.

Marco

So that's from the Euro parliament...

Well.

It takes a special kind of fool to call any money put into commodity derivatives an "investment".

 

[N467RX]

FP4 36 exp is now 6.89 at Freestyle, I don't know if BH and Adorama have hiked their prices up yet, because it's now significantly cheaper.

HP5 is cheap right now because of the 2-packs, I might buy 4 or 5 of those and be good for a while, since I just shoot 2-3 rolls per month, at the most.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Yikes, I just looked at the price of my next box of MGWT and nearly fell off my chair. £190 for a box of 50 20x16.... that's close to putting a fiver under the easel each time! Now Adox MCC is cheaper by over £30 for 50 sheets and what perplexes me is that MG IV is £50 cheaper for a box of 50. That can't be down to silver prices alone, can it? Its a shame I don't get along with MGIV.

Ilford prices seem to be doing the same as Leica. I know silver prices have gone up, but is that the full explanation for the meteoric increases over the last few years?

I really want to keep using Ilford products, but at these prices I am likely to start using alternatives. I just can't justify plonking £400 down for 100 sheets of paper. It certainly makes you more efficient in the darkroom....

 

[Роберт]

I just can't justify plonking £400 down for 100 sheets of paper

This is two months average month salary in my country ..........

I have changed to Foma, also good papers and still reasonable priced.

 

[marcmarc]

I picked up a couple rolls of Arista Edu 100 in 120 the other day when I stopped in a freestyle. While I still think Fuji Acros 100 is the best buy in a medium speed film, I recently read that some people feel that Arista Edu 100 (aka Foma Pan 100) has a similar look to the old Agfa APX 100 which was my favorite medium speed film. I really wish I could keep shooting Adox/Efke films. At $4.99 a 120 roll, I would expect better QC. I've had too many rolls where the first frame was exposed at the very edge of the strip. One can even see the band across the top where the backing paper was taped.

 

[Роберт]

You should expect Fomapan would be the cheapest in the Czech Republic (where it is produced) but it's not.

Best prices you will get in Norway, Germany or the Netherlands. The Q.C. of original FP films has been significant improved with the last production. They are using a different backing paper now and the emulsion itself is better hardened.

Like all manufactureres the prices went up but not till in the sky.

 

[Paul Jenkin]

I recently picked up 20 rolls of current Agfa APX100 at £1 per roll (Silverprint were selling it like hot cakes at Photographica in London last Month). I know it's not the same as the original APX - but it is pretty good film and exceptional for that sort of money. Which sort of brings me to a "thought":

If there's silver in traditional B&W film, either the amount used in various films / brands must vary massively and/or the cost of production for Ilford is disproportionately high compared to the likes of Foma, Agfa, etc.......

It does seem difficult to reconcile the Ilford price hike solely with the increase in the price of silver. That said, a world without Ilford (the photographic company not the place in Essex) would be a very bad place indeed.....

 

[michaelbsc]

I recently picked up 20 rolls of current Agfa APX100 at £1 per roll (Silverprint were selling it like hot cakes at Photographica in London last Month). I know it's not the same as the original APX - but it is pretty good film and exceptional for that sort of money. Which sort of brings me to a "thought":

If there's silver in traditional B&W film, either the amount used in various films / brands must vary massively and/or the cost of production for Ilford is disproportionately high compared to the likes of Foma, Agfa, etc.......

It does seem difficult to reconcile the Ilford price hike solely with the increase in the price of silver. That said, a world without Ilford (the photographic company not the place in Essex) would be a very bad place indeed.....

I don't think one could accurately claim that the raw material cost rise in silver is soley responsible for the increase. But the increase in silver costs are symptomatic of broader cost increases, with silver simply being the most drastic and most visible.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I am proud to say I just burned through 25 rolls of Ilford film in one week... Delta 400 (store was out of T-Max 400) and Delta 3200 in 120 format.
It stung a bit cost wise, but I had fun, so what the hey! And who else makes something like Delta 3200 in 120?

 

[Jim Noel]

rising prices

bummer, good thing my big order of kentmere paper is going through right before that, and remaining stocks will stay at the lower prices for awhile im sure as well at the big stores.

You can hope the big stores hold steady on the price of materials already in stock, but don't bet on it.

 

[MartinP]

I recently picked up 20 rolls of current Agfa APX100 at £1 per roll (Silverprint were selling it like hot cakes at Photographica in London last Month).

Remember that stuff was made a few years ago, stored as huge rolls before being packaged, and is now being sold without the recent silver price rises coming in to play, and for a deliberately end-of-life price. The longest use-by date I have is not much more than a year.

That being said, it is/was really nice stuff and I have a bit more than 150 35mm rolls stored, but used up the 120 some time ago :-/

 

[Matt5791]

Havent really had time to read through the entire thread, but all I can say is I know that the last thing Harman have wanted to do is increase prices, but they really have little option. They have to keep the company profitable - in the end this is a company operated and owned by 6 enthusiast directors - and they don't all turn up at the office in Ferraries or Bentleys!

At the same time they have forged the alliance with Hahnemuhle and released a new FB paper - this really opens up the future of FB as Hahnemuhle, I understand, are a smaller and more adaptable mill to Felix Schoeller (who currently make ALL regular baryta FB base used by Ilford, Foma, Efke etc. and demand large minimum orders).

The other things I would say are - We haven't seen sales fall off following the increases. And whilst paper is a lot more costly than it was, it's still dwafed by the cost of high end inkjet.

Matt

 

[railwayman3]

@Matt5791 - That seems a vary fair assessment of the situation as regards Ilford/Harman. I think that they are always as open as they can be with us, given due allowance for commercial sensitivities.

(My gripe is with companies that try to dress up bad news as being something entirely for the benefits of the consumers. I'm looking at a letter today from the Chief Executive of a company (nothing to do with photography) with which I deal, telling me of their wonderful new "stratigic partnership" and the amazing benefits which we, as customers, will enjoy in the future. Basically, it comes down to "we're all retiring and we've sold out to the best offer". I'd respect them more if they just said that...and spelled my name correctly! Rant over.