Ilford paper packaging

[eddym]

Seems the smallest package I can find of Ilford Galerie paper in 16x20 size is 50 sheets, and that makes it a pretty sizeable investment. Does anyone sell it in smaller packages? I know I used to get in in 10-sheet packs, or maybe even 25 sheets. I really don't want to buy too much at one time, as 16x20 paper won't fit in my refrigerator.

 

[Rob Skeoch]

I just ordered some 11x14 galerie. While I was there I asked the price of the 16x20 in the 10 sheet pack. They said it wasn't listed like that any longer. Only available in the 50 sheet box. I guess they figure someone using this product would be a bit more serious than most and eventually use the box.
-Rob Skeoch

 

[ChuckP]

Maybe you can cut some down to a smaller size and freeze that.

 

[Bob F.]

I checked the product availability list and that is indeed the only size available now. Seems a bit dumb to me: being graded, most people are going to want 2 or probably 3 grades in stock which is going to add up to a tidy sum and it's too big to fit in many household fridges. Someone at Ilford has not been wearing their thinking cap...

Cheers, Bob.

 

[bill schwab]

Someone at Ilford has not been wearing their thinking cap...

I'd say it breaks down to economics Bob. After all, how many do you think are buying this stuff now? I think I'll be happy knowing they still make the stuff and buy it however I can without complaint.

Bill

 

[Simon R Galley]

ILFOBROM Galerie Pack Sizes / ILFORD Photo Responds

Dear All,

ILFOBROM Galerie is a fantastic product, and I love it, but its a very small
runner for us compared to MULTIGRADE FB, we have it in 50's because to
pack in 10's ( it was never in 25's ) is just not viable, we would be making to few packs per finishing, in 50's we keep the price down to a viable amount:

This 10, 25, 50 and 100 sheet debate is a passionate one, but in this case its 50's or nothing sorry :

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN Technology

As a by the by I have been away at Focus on Imaging for the week so sorry if I have not been as quick replying, week affter next I am away on business in the Far East, but I will reply, I am one of the few people who do not travel with a laptop, a nice CONTAX T2 but not a laptop.

 

[Bob F.]

I'd say it breaks down to economics Bob. After all, how many do you think are buying this stuff now? I think I'll be happy knowing they still make the stuff and buy it however I can without complaint.

Bill

Not many, I realise. My worry is that you get in to self-fulfilling prophecy territory. If it is in too large a pack size for many people to afford, they won't buy it - so it will be lost completely because of "lack of demand"... Perhaps if they packed grades other than 2 in 20's... I think I'm a bit miffed 'cos I'm about to try some after using VC only to date - luckily I rarely print above 12x16...

Cheers, Bob.

 

[Kino]

Maybe they should offer a pack of 60 with 3 x 20 sheets of different grades...

 

[eddym]

Not many, I realise. My worry is that you get in to self-fulfilling prophecy territory. If it is in too large a pack size for many people to afford, they won't buy it - so it will be lost completely because of "lack of demand"...

This is precisely what I was about to say to Simon. I can certainly understand Ilford's reasoning, and I thank them profusely for even continuing to make my favorite paper. But the problem is, as you point out, that if fewer users (like me) can afford to purchase large quantities at a time because of storage issues, then the demand will be lower, thus making it even less economically feasible for Ilford to continue to make it at all. I could handle maybe 25 sheets, but 50 is a $200+ investment. I wish I were selling prints fast enough to justify that, but I'm afraid that's not the case. This may lead me to consider other brands of paper, thus reducing the demand for Ilford. I don't want to do that.

Thanks for listening...

 

[photomc]

While I agree in concept, it would seem that this is one of those times when we have to step back and take a look at the big picture. What we want is smaller quantity so we do not have paper sitting around - What Ilford wants is the correct size package to sell in a given size and still make a profit. A tuff one, not matter how you look at it...but Ilford must have people that track sales, size, etc and must have come up with the 50 sheet package because it is one of the cost break points for them. In all honesty, the purchase of a 10 sheet package - once in a while (speculation on my part, but otherwise a person would purchase the 50 sheet package) would not actually have enough impact to the bottom line to make it worth the expense to Ilford of said package.

One could say that because Ilford does not offer a 10 sheet (or 15,20,25) they would actually sell MORE paper, but do not because it is not available in the count size customers want (and this may indeed be the case), but packaging (and this is a speculation again) is based on how the consumer purchases product. Now for the life of me, I can not understand why you can not purchase 12x16 in the US, just like you can not purchase 11x14 in Europe (or at least that is the impression I have). Now I understand that in the US 11x14 is considered standard and in EU 12x16 is, but it must cost quite a bit to cut paper in these 2 different size for each market...sure seems like it would save companies and consumers $ if there were more standard size.

Not an answer at all, but just something thought I would offer for folks to consider.

 

[eddym]

While I agree in concept, it would seem that this is one of those times when we have to step back and take a look at the big picture. What we want is smaller quantity so we do not have paper sitting around - What Ilford wants is the correct size package to sell in a given size and still make a profit. A tuff one, not matter how you look at it...but Ilford must have people that track sales, size, etc and must have come up with the 50 sheet package because it is one of the cost break points for them. In all honesty, the purchase of a 10 sheet package - once in a while (speculation on my part, but otherwise a person would purchase the 50 sheet package) would not actually have enough impact to the bottom line to make it worth the expense to Ilford of said package.

One could say that because Ilford does not offer a 10 sheet (or 15,20,25) they would actually sell MORE paper, but do not because it is not available in the count size customers want (and this may indeed be the case), but packaging (and this is a speculation again) is based on how the consumer purchases product. Now for the life of me, I can not understand why you can not purchase 12x16 in the US, just like you can not purchase 11x14 in Europe (or at least that is the impression I have). Now I understand that in the US 11x14 is considered standard and in EU 12x16 is, but it must cost quite a bit to cut paper in these 2 different size for each market...sure seems like it would save companies and consumers $ if there were more standard size.

Not an answer at all, but just something thought I would offer for folks to consider.

Didn't we study this case way back in Econ 101....?
Or was that one of the classes I fell asleep in?

Actually, I'd like to try some 12x16, but it's too big for my 11x14 trays, and it's too much trouble to set up the 16x20 trays, because they take so much chemistry. I'd cut it in half and make 8x12's, but that's too big for my 8x10 trays, so I have to use the 11x14's...

It's indeed a quandary!

 

[photomc]

Didn't we study this case way back in Econ 101....?
Or was that one of the classes I fell asleep in?
........
It's indeed a quandary!

Knew I should have taken business classes instead was a microbiology major

Do understand the quandry though....tried processing 16x20 and just did not have room for those Big trays....and could not talk the boss into a bigger darkroom - sigh!

 

[MattKing]

I don't have room for any trays, but I do have a Cibachrome 16x20 developing tube on its way from an Ebay seller (along with three 8x10s, and one 11x14)..

Anyone use these for B&W, and have any suggestions?

By the way, I thought that the 16x20 "sample pack" suggestion (20 sheets eache of three grades was a great idea)!

Matt

 

[Mick Fagan]

About 20/22 years ago, Ilford Australia, which was a manufacturing plant, or possibly a re-packaging plant, had reps who used to ply their goods to the trade.

The rep who used to call in to our industrial photo lab, was trying to get us to purchase cut sheet paper in greater quantities.

Mainly, we were using roll paper in widths up to 4' wide. We had just installed our first roll easel, which is something that takes roll paper and cuts it either after each print, or saves it to be put into a processor later.

Anyway the rep explained that if we were able to purchase some more cut sheet paper he would look good back at the office. We didn't take the rep too seriously until an off the cuff remark about the cost of manufacturing the box that paper is packaged in.

We were paying something in the order of about $30 a box, for 100 sheets of 8x10" paper. The off the cuff remark was that each box was costing Ilford about $5.00 each before any paper went inside.

The previous week we had picked up a nice job that entailed something like 100 5x7" B&W prints a day. Adding this to our normal work meant that something like 180 sheets of 5x7" a day though the lab.

With some lateral thinking, my boss said to the rep that we would convert our normal order for 5x7" paper from 100 sheet boxes to the 250 sheet boxes and we would take the same number of boxes this month if he would take out the cost of one box, $5.00 on top of our normal discount. From that day on we only ever got 5x7" paper in 250 sheet boxes.

It does go to show though, that packaging of materials that have to be kept dry, dark and crease free, entail thoughtful considerations regarding parameters the end user often doesn't understand.

I fully understand why Ilford would be rationalising their product inventory, as well as their packaging regime. Their job is to maintain the quality, whilst still being able to sell the product at a price we can afford and that they make a profit. It's not easy!

Mick.