Ilford Pan F: using it to best advantage

[pentaxuser]

Lachan, if you haven't see it already, Ilford have now made, on the much earlier Polypan F thread, a definitive statement on the subject. Well it is definitive in my book and should be the end of the matter but I fear the "bee will remain in some bonnets forever" That remains their problem.

pentaxuser

 

[Lachlan Young]

Lachan, if you haven't see it already, Ilford have now made, on the much earlier Polypan F thread, a definitive statement on the subject. Well it is definitive in my book and should be the end of the matter but I fear the "bee will remain in some bonnets forever" That remains their problem.

pentaxuser

Already seen it, cheers!

 

[Fraxinus]

Nice to hear about - but let me ask : "your Neofin Doku was in addition a little expired too ?"
I tryed to by Neofin Doko 2007? 2008?
as I can remember correct it was still discontinued to that time.

Yes the pack of Doku I have (now 4 bottles left) must be at least 12 years old, but it's still crystal clear and not discoloured. It still works fine, and lacking any Technical Pan I thought I would try it with Pan F+, as the instruction leaflet gives development times for that film, along with Agfa APX 25 and 100.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any idea of its constituents?

 

[trendland]

Yes the pack of Doku I have (now 4 bottles left) must be at least 12 years old, but it's still crystal clear and not discoloured. It still works fine, and lacking any Technical Pan I thought I would try it with Pan F+, as the instruction leaflet gives development times for that film, along with Agfa APX 25 and 100.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has any idea of its constituents?

Notice : Tetenal kits of Neofin Blue,Neofin Red, Neofin Doku from the 70th were confectioned in 5 little plastic bottles.
Somewere in the 80th they changed to absolut airtight glass bottles.
This should be one key to longer shell live
of developers to some additional years.
The next reason I am not very sure about - but it seams to be so : These developer concentrates are liquit on the base of alkohol.
That should be 2 reasons to long shell live.
An other possible reason is the strength of this developers - we know this from Neofin Red (also Neofin Blue is not total exausted after developing one film like Tetenal recomandation).
Let me ask : your Neofin Doko was from original box with glass bottles? (manufactured after 1980 ? I can't say for sure the absolut correct year of change )

with regards

 

[trendland]

Pretty much everyone has found it to be quite different to Pan-F, not least in terms of hardening, and a range of other aspects including grain size. Of course, most traditionally made slow films will have similar-ish basic characteristics. If it's less than 13+ years old it will definitely not be Pan-F plus - Harman have been explicit about not offering Ilford brand materials under 3rd party labels. Much more likely to be a cinema technical film possibly involving Filmotec & whoever was contract coating for them. Whoever wrote the numbers on the can was probably a native German speaker. I know you are desperate to implicate Ilford/ Harman in your interminable conspiracy theories, but the reality probably lies somewhere in central Europe.

Yes that are quite good facts against any theory of a possible accordance of the emulsion backing between PanF and PolipanF.
But it also includes the absence of a theory of the detailed origin of PolipanF.
So we have a situation (since a couple of years) that no film manufacturer is willing
the simple state : Yes we have made this stuff on basis of following (obviously old)
emulsion....xxx .
And Ilford has possible reasons to distance from responsibility to Polipan.

Look on the big amounds of this copy film - then we should know it has to be
a big manufacturer - who produced ISO 50 bw film?
I only know PanF from the last years.

with regards

 

[DREW WILEY]

Back to the real deal, Pan F Plus : This film has a pronounced S-curve with a very limited straight-line section. This defines certain inherent scene reproduction characteristics. For example, it is a very poor film choice for high-contrast scenes, but can be sheer magic in soft light when your desire fine grain and its "wire-edge" sharpness. I expose it at 25 and develop it in a tweak of PMK pyro where the A and B components are equal in volume.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I agree with Drew. Pan F Plus is a bit weird with the lack of any appreciable straight line portion. I have had the best results with EI = 32 using D-23 1+1. This tames the contrast without loss of detail.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

So we have a situation (since a couple of years) that no film manufacturer is willing
the simple state : Yes we have made this stuff on basis of following (obviously old)
emulsion....xxx .

OR the manufacturer is unwilling to admit that its film is being repurposed. According to the ad the marketier is a German company called Polystar of which nothing else is known. Another post claims that the supply is drying up. It appears to be available now only in 24 exposure cassettes.

 

[grommi]

"Pretty much everyone has found it (Polypan F) to be quite different to Pan-F, not least in terms of hardening, and a range of other aspects including grain size."

No, not me: besides a slightly longer dev time needed for the same contrast and the missing halo protection of the clear light blueish PET base I can't distinguish one from the other. I made a side by side comparison developed at the same time in the same tank:

https://flic.kr/p/oLxffw vs https://flic.kr/p/oLxzKk look for the biggest file

"OR the manufacturer is unwilling to admit that its film is being repurposed."

That`s exactly my estimation and would fit to the recent Harman philosophy.


Polypan F was distrbuted in Germany by lumiere (lumiere-shop.de).Most cans (if not all) of 90 and 152 metres were sold by them for some years. They didn't sell any other sizes nor 135 canisters, Maybe he bought the whole batch from the manufacturer. I bought a 90 m can and one of the very last 152 m cans (expiring date 12/2015) on a photo market, where I could talk with the luniere-owner. Of course I asked him who made this film and he said that it's a cine copy film made by Ilford. But one batch would have been unusable for the original purpose (missing border printing?). It would also explain the 90 and 152 m sizes only, all 135 canister packaging may have been made from these by others.

But it's of cours an academical discussion. Polypan F is not available anymore at reasonable prices. Should I auction the untouched 152 m can at Southeby's and by a car from the avails? 4-digit offers (€ or $) via pm welcome

 

[Gerald C Koch]

"Pretty much everyone has found it (Polypan F) to be quite different to Pan-F, not least in terms of hardening, and a range of other aspects including grain size."

No, not me: besides a slightly longer dev time needed for the same contrast and the missing halo protection of the clear light blueish PET base I can't distinguish one from the other. I made a side by side comparison developed at the same time in the same tank:

https://flic.kr/p/oLxffw vs https://flic.kr/p/oLxzKk look for the biggest file

"OR the manufacturer is unwilling to admit that its film is being repurposed."

That`s exactly my estimation and would fit to the recent Harman philosophy.


Polypan F was distrbuted in Germany by lumiere (lumiere-shop.de).Most cans (if not all) of 90 and 152 metres were sold by them for some years. They didn't sell any other sizes nor 135 canisters, Maybe he bought the whole batch from the manufacturer. I bought a 90 m can and one of the very last 152 m cans (expiring date 12/2015) on a photo market, where I could talk with the luniere-owner. Of course I asked him who made this film and he said that it's a cine copy film made by Ilford. But one batch would have been unusable for the original purpose (missing border printing?). It would also explain the 90 and 152 m sizes only, all 135 canister packaging may have been made from these by others.

But it's of cours an academical discussion. Polypan F is not available anymore at reasonable prices. Should I auction the untouched 152 m can at Southeby's and by a car from the avails? 4-digit offers (€ or $) via pm welcome

A somewhat acid comment that the people at Lumiere know that Ilford makes the film but the folks at Ilford don't know this. JEEZ!!!

AFAIK Ilford made cine films years ago but only negative film no positive or intermediate films. They have long ceased doing even that.

 

[grommi]

Dear Gerald, may I quote your own words a second time?

"OR the manufacturer is unwilling to admit that its film is being repurposed."
If I would be Ilford, I also wouldn't admit it.

I can not proove that the film was made by Ilford. But I can confirm from my very own experiance, that Pan F+ and Polypan F are very similar, not to say undistiunguishable under many conditions regarding the results. Did you ever shoot a single frame on Polypan F yourself, not to speak of comparing both films side by side?


m-LU bhf-polyf-parod by Imagesfrugales, on Flickr

 

[grommi]

should be the end of the matter but I fear the "bee will remain in some bonnets forever" That remains their problem.

Which problem? I enjoy using this film as much as I can encourage people to develop Ilford Pan F+ in Parodinal with excellent results.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Dear Gerald, may I quote your own words a second time?

"OR the manufacturer is unwilling to admit that its film is being repurposed."
If I would be Ilford, I also wouldn't admit it.

I can not proove that the film was made by Ilford. But I can confirm from my very own experiance, that Pan F+ and Polypan F are very similar, not to say undistiunguishable under many conditions regarding the results. Did you ever shoot a single frame on Polypan F yourself, not to speak of comparing both films side by side?


m-LU bhf-polyf-parod by Imagesfrugales, on Flickr

Two posts by people from Ilford that they do not and never have manufactured Poltpan F. If that doesn't nail the rumor for what it is a baseless rumor then what else can. As I pointed out before Ilford hasn't made any cine film for many years. Does Ilford have some secret plant in the Schwartzwald manned by elves?

 

[Frank53]

Two posts by people from Ilford that they do not and never have manufactured Poltpan F. If that doesn't nail the rumor for what it is a baseless rumor then what else can. As I pointed out before Ilford hasn't made any cine film for many years. Does Ilford have some secret plant in the Schwartzwald manned by elves?

Another case of “alternative truth” ?
Regards,
Frank

 

[pentaxuser]

Which problem? I enjoy using this film as much as I can encourage people to develop Ilford Pan F+ in Parodinal with excellent results.

The problem I was referring to was the one where some people are convinced or seem to be convinced that despite what Ilford say, Polypan F is in fact Pan F+. The belief seem to be, as I said that while Ilford hasn't lied in its answers, It hasn't told the whole truth by its clever phrasing. If you believe that it is Pan F plus and it is not a problem for you that Ilford is not admitting allegedly that Polypan F is allegedly Pan F+ then fine we can move on. I was making no comment about Polypan F's qualities.

pentaxuser

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The problem I was referring to was the one where some people are convinced or seem to be convinced that despite what Ilford say, Polypan F is in fact Pan F+. The belief seem to be, as I said that while Ilford hasn't lied in its answers, It hasn't told the whole truth by its clever phrasing. If you believe that it is Pan F plus and it is not a problem for you that Ilford is not admitting allegedly that Polypan F is allegedly Pan F+ then fine we can move on. I was making no comment about Polypan F's qualities.

pentaxuser

+1000

Hopefully we can say amen to all this blather.[

 

[trendland]

Dear Gerald, may I quote your own words a second time?

"OR the manufacturer is unwilling to admit that its film is being repurposed."
If I would be Ilford, I also wouldn't admit it.

I can not proove that the film was made by Ilford. But I can confirm from my very own experiance, that Pan F+ and Polypan F are very similar, not to say undistiunguishable under many conditions regarding the results. Did you ever shoot a single frame on Polypan F yourself, not to speak of comparing both films side by side?


m-LU bhf-polyf-parod by Imagesfrugales, on Flickr

Excellent !

with compliments

 

[Tony-S]

Pan F+ for me: Low contrast scenes, ISO 25 exposure and either Perceptol 1+2, Pyrocat HD or 510 Pyro.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Pan F+ for me: Low contrast scenes, ISO 25 exposure and either Perceptol 1+2,

+1

A high sulfite developer like Perceptol,i Mcrodol-X or D-23 usually diluted for better acutance,