Ilford and 220, for film resurgence?

[lxdude]

I worked for Kodak and I get very tired of seeing comments that the engineers and chemists were stupid and did not know how to do there job.

Yeah, it was just the people running the place!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yeah, it was just the people running the place!

At the president and VP level.

 

[MattKing]

At the president and VP level.

In the last few decades perhaps.
Or perhaps at the institutional shareholder level.
Short term ROI at the expense of long term evolution.
Kodak sold more film in ~1995 than any year previously.

 

[Arthurwg]

Perhaps it's time to do away with Backing Paper, and evolve Backing Plastics or Polymer film surface material that will wash away like unexposed silvers will, in development, say a traditional, or modified acid stop.

IMO.

Actually a very good idea. That, or a disposable plastic backing would do the trick.

 

[Arthurwg]

In the last few decades perhaps.
Or perhaps at the institutional shareholder level.
Short term ROI at the expense of long term evolution.
Kodak sold more film in ~1995 than any year previously.

Interesting. That's just about when film photography and film cameras came close to perfection.

 

[Arthurwg]

Odd, but I never felt limited to only 12 frames to a roll, and I have been using my Rollei since about 1970. Very easy and fast to reload a Rollei. Why would anyone want to carry two Rolleis? One reason I use a Rollei is for the simplicity and little baggage. If I want to lug around a lot of stuff I use my Hasselblad.

Back in the day some pros carried three Rolleiflexes, a Tele, a Wide, and an 80mm. W. Eugene Smith was one of them.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Back in the day some pros carried three Rolleiflexes, a Tele, a Wide, and an 80mm. W. Eugene Smith was one of them.

With all three around his neck? That is photographic eye candy.

 

[Cholentpot]

Back in the day some pros carried three Rolleiflexes, a Tele, a Wide, and an 80mm. W. Eugene Smith was one of them.

Mamiya solved that problem.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Mamiya solved that problem.

So did Hasselblad, Rollei, Bronica, Kowa, ... with the SLRs that had interchangeable lenses and film backs.

 

[BobUK]

I would be very happy if Ilford would sell rolls of bulk 120/220 .

A bit of juggling in the darkroom using 120 backings cut to make leaders and tails should not be beyond the skills of most people.

I have a Fuji 645 Pro Wide that only needs a switch moving for the counter and the pressure plate moved into the alternate 220 position. It seems a shame that that particular mode may never be used.

Does anyone know of any black and white 120 films sold in bulk rolls?

Come on Ilford, cans of bulk 120/220 should not be a production nightmare.

Heres hoping.

 

[Helge]

So did Hasselblad, Rollei, Bronica, Kowa, ... with the SLRs that had interchangeable lenses and film backs.

At the price of a fragile ballet of opening and closing of a dozen mechanisms and gaskets at every exposure. Plus a huge heavy body compared to the elegance of a folder or even a TLR.
Mamiya made the ultimate exchangeable lens medium format camera.

 

[Sirius Glass]

At the price of a fragile ballet of opening and closing of a dozen mechanisms and gaskets at every exposure. Plus a huge heavy body compared to the elegance of a folder or even a TLR.
Mamiya made the ultimate exchangeable lens medium format camera.

1. I have not found FM SLR to be fragile.
2. There is nothing elegant about TLRs and they are a pain to use with polarizing filters.
3. TLRs have parallax problems with close ups.
4. One cannot stop down to see the depth of field with a TLR.
5. I used and found the Mamiya C330 to be fragile - the inside door flap came loose and opened and closes at will damaging photographs.

 

[Helge]

1. I have not found FM SLR to be fragile.
2. There is nothing elegant about TLRs and they are a pain to use with polarizing filters.
3. TLRs have parallax problems with close ups.
4. One cannot stop down to see the depth of field with a TLR.
5. I used and found the Mamiya C330 to be fragile - the inside door flap came loose and opened and closes at will damaging photographs.

TLRs are a joy to use with any kind of filtering.
Polarizers are dealt with by simply having two.
Ever heard of the Minolta Autopole? The Rollei solution is only a little bit more cumbersome.

You can’t really see the effect of DoF with stop down. Especially not in a dim-ish waist level finder.
DoF is best imagined. Like exposure.

The Mamiya TLRs was never the epitome of the idea. It’s like a bike with a car seat, stereo and rack and pinion steering bolted on. Fun? Sure! But practical and best? No.

Most TLRs have closeup lenses with compensation for parallax. Many finders with moving internal masks that indicate the viewport.

Medium format SLRs are a perfect example of “good ideas don’t often scale”. A half-timbered house is a good idea. But it won’t scale much above fours floors.
Hasselblad SLRs and their imitators, are teetering right on the edge of being impractical.
There is a reason why large format SLRs are very rare.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You can’t really see the effect of DoF with stop down. Especially not in a dim-ish waist level finder.
DoF is best imagined. Like exposure.

I use it with my Hasselblad often. Your problem may be that you are using inferior optics and a WLF.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Medium format SLRs are a perfect example of “good ideas don’t often scale”. A half-timbered house is a good idea. But it won’t scale much above fours floors.
Hasselblad SLRs and their imitators, are teetering right on the edge of being impractical.
There is a reason why large format SLRs are very rare.

Not in the minds of good photographers, especially press and fashion photographers.
Hasselblads SLRs are so impractical that the design has been used since 1957 to 2000+ with upward and downward compatibility. The ax you are grinding is very dull, bent and well beyond it experation date. You really should move beyond your late 1940's equipment.

 

[Helge]

I use it with my Hasselblad often. Your problem may be that you are using inferior optics and a WLF.

I don’t even use stop-down with my X-700 (acute-matte screen) and a 1.2 lens. Once past f5.6 or so the screen becomes so dark the impression differs way too much from the final photo. Anything in between can be visualized easily.
By f11 it’s a look into a murky, grainy version of “something”.

Not in the minds of good photographers, especially press and fashion photographers.
Hasselblads SLRs are so impractical that the design has been used since 1957 to 2000+ with upward and downward compatibility. The ax you are grinding is very dull, bent and well beyond it experation date. You really should move beyond your late 1940's equipment.

Hasselblad SLRs was used by pros in approximately the same period TLRs was ditto.
Since then they have ridden on the coattails of the Apollo Hasselblad and the same type of people who use Leicas as necklaces.
I like some of those people, you included. But don’t pretend that the basic idea haven’t been bettered or was even that good to begin with.

 

[Cholentpot]

Look what I've started.

I'm on Team TLR because they look cooler. Plain and simple. And the Mamiya C line look twice as cool because they're twice as big. And it says 'Professional' on the front.

 

[eli griggs]

I have yet to see how the Hasselblad 500 series, the Zeiss lenses, the backs and all the other wonderful bits and pieces have been "bettered"

Those lenses and bodies are still the standard bearers for 6x6 analog cameras, medium format SLRs and the almost boxed 6"x6"s such as Pentax, Rollie (135), etc.

Even though the current Hasselblad digital MF cameras and backs are no made by the same company as that which made the 500cm I carry, that some of those dbacks can fit and function on that camera and other 500 series bodies attest to the enduring vision of their creators, with it's small, marvelous form factor and the best glass in the World.

Show us a camera that even meets the fullness of the analog paradigm of the 500cm, much less the digital enhancements in today's World and perhaps we'll better understand your reasoning.

 

[Helge]

I have yet to see how the Hasselblad 500 series, the Zeiss lenses, the backs and all the other wonderful bits and pieces have been "bettered"

Those lenses and bodies are still the standard bearers for 6x6 analog cameras, medium format SLRs and the almost boxed 6"x6"s such as Pentax, Rollie (135), etc.

Even though the current Hasselblad digital MF cameras and backs are no made by the same company as that which made the 500cm I carry, that some of those dbacks can fit and function on that camera and other 500 series bodies attest to the enduring vision of their creators, with it's small, marvelous form factor and the best glass in the World.

Show us a camera that even meets the fullness of the analog paradigm of the 500cm, much less the digital enhancements in today's World and perhaps we'll better understand your reasoning.

You have twelve shots. How much could you need to change magazines? Bringing rolls of film in the shape of magazines, that has to be synced and dark slide swapped and carried and nestled is hardly convenient.
Bring an extra body of a smaller system if need be.
That smaller system might be one of the Mamiya rangefinders that also has glass that is second to none.
And you need compatible with digital? I get that you want to use the lenses. But so many other ways to do that.

The Planar or Xenotar Rollieflex (either arperture) is about as good optical quality as you get on medium format. There is no mechanism. Only a leaf shutter and the solid optical block that is optimized for that particular body.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I would be very happy if Ilford would sell rolls of bulk 120/220 .

They do sell bulk rolls of 46 mm during their annual custom cut event -- don't know that I've heard of them doing the same in 61.5 mm, but I don't know any reason they wouldn't if enough people ordered it. A hundred foot roll of that would yield 17 or so rolls of 220...

 

[mshchem]

220 is dead. Dead and gone, 120 is perfectly sized. MHOFWIW.

 

[BobUK]

I shall have to watch out for that Ilford event.

Thank you Donald Qualls

 

[AnselMortensen]

220 is dead. Dead and gone, 120 is perfectly sized. MHOFWIW.

 

[eli griggs]

My A-70 backs hold up to about 65-70 frames, vs. the A-24, vs A-16 (4x4), vs. A-12, plus the cut film holder in their little inserts.

Plus the polaroid and Instax instant film backs and the (cursed) digitals.

There may be even a tiny negative or paper printer one day, invented by other Hasselblad owners.

My backs are in sync, all have original inserts and I have spare, new dark slides, In case I forget to insert the dark slide into the holder on the back and loose one, though I am entirely capable to make new brass, bronze, etc dark slides on my own.

Lens quality of Zeiss glass and leaf shuttered lenses are very much the apex optical glass, in medium format, and continue to be the prize in pursuit by other analog lens makers, plus the "V" lenses shutters are repairable by the owner, if they dare to learn how and do it themselves.

These lenses, up to the 350 and 500mm (plus teleconverter, if you roll that way) give you reach beyond any TLR I know of, but, rare, bespoken tech may exist somewhere but no in competition to with these lenses.


Ask folks here to post shots from their 180mm lenses or macro from the 135mm or 120mm lenses on bellows do you can see but a sample of why The Hasselblad 500 series, the Flex and arc bodies, etc, when the shooter is in the mood or need, are worth their weight in the Studio and, the field.

As I said before show us a camera that matches the Hasselblad 500 system, in a very wide selection of abilities, if you can.

We'll be waiting...

Cheers

 

[Cholentpot]

My A-70 backs hold up to about 65-70 frames, vs. the A-24, vs A-16 (4x4), vs. A-12, plus the cut film holder in their little inserts.

Plus the polaroid and Instax instant film backs and the (cursed) digitals.

There may be even a tiny negative or paper printer one day, invented by other Hasselblad owners.

My backs are in sync, all have original inserts and I have spare, new dark slides, In case I forget to insert the dark slide into the holder on the back and loose one, though I am entirely capable to make new brass, bronze, etc dark slides on my own.

Lens quality of Zeiss glass and leaf shuttered lenses are very much the apex optical glass, in medium format, and continue to be the prize in pursuit by other analog lens makers, plus the "V" lenses shutters are repairable by the owner, if they dare to learn how and do it themselves.

These lenses, up to the 350 and 500mm (plus teleconverter, if you roll that way) give you reach beyond any TLR I know of, but, rare, bespoken tech may exist somewhere but no in competition to with these lenses.


Ask folks here to post shots from their 180mm lenses or macro from the 135mm or 120mm lenses on bellows do you can see but a sample of why The Hasselblad 500 series, the Flex and arc bodies, etc, when the shooter is in the mood or need, are worth their weight in the Studio and, the field.

As I said before show us a camera that matches the Hasselblad 500 system, in a very wide selection of abilities, if you can.

We'll be waiting...

Cheers

The day I'm given a Hasselblad is the day I join that team. For now I don't have one nor can I afford one.