ID11 or D76 1+1

[chassis]

D-76 stock lasts a long time, at least 6 months, in my experience using PET bottles with all air squeezed out. I use it 1+2 at 68F with reduced agitation and like it.

 

[trendland]

Good god ID11,D76 HC110 Is anybody really going to think that any of these developers are going to result in bad negatives coming out the developing tank....I would use any of them .........And I do

Bad results in film developement I realy never saw.As I wonder sometimes about
"thin" bw negatives or (sometimes) very
strong developed films (intended) I just had a look on old bw films from the 60th.
All of them comes from some comercial labs because I still was not able to develope bw in 1964 .
With this films I saw a broad spectrum of
and kind of lousy developement.
So it is not possible to have bad results caused from bad developers.
No developer is so bad that we can't have perfect results when using it correct.
Of cause you can not push PanF with rodinal to an E.I. 3200/36Din (in addition one would have smalest grain ).

But even rodinal is not a bad developer.

So we can say today is not just one simple lousy developer avaible.

with regards

 

[trendland]

D-76 stock lasts a long time, at least 6 months, in my experience using PET bottles with all air squeezed out. I use it 1+2 at 68F with reduced agitation and like it.

Yes chassis 6 month is a normal shell-live I noticed two - sometimes 8 month.
But in theory the shell-live would be longer (more strongly diluted than recommanded) as we see here first from the OP ?

with regards

 

[Harry Stevens]

Since my last post I have developed three rolls of colour film, one was 20 plus years old and I smell like a chemical factory........I need a bigger tank.

 

[Bill Burk]

It's not specifically a UK convention it's Word wide, it's just Eastman Kodak using a convention wrongly.

Ian

Having used that wrong convention for so long, I just adapted to it.

Seriously 1:1 or 1+1 doesn't confuse me.

But I am curious. I always have marveled at how long D-76 keeps.
Has anyone offered amazing stories of longevity for ID-11?

 

[John Wiegerink]

Having used that wrong convention for so long, I just adapted to it.

Seriously 1:1 or 1+1 doesn't confuse me.

But I am curious. I always have marveled at how long D-76 keeps.
Has anyone offered amazing stories of longevity for ID-11?

I had a good friend that kept a tank of D76 going for many years in his basement. I'm talking double digit years. He had about 35 0r 40 little Boston brown bottles for of his homemade replenisher. He was an artist, painter/photographer, and his work was first rate. I got all his darkroom equipment and chemicals when he was called to do a portrait of God, but not his formulas. I end up dumping all his mixed chemistry since I was using HC-100 at the time. I should maybe have dump my HC-110 and switched to his. Just kidding of course.

 

[Ian Grant]

Having used that wrong convention for so long, I just adapted to it.

Seriously 1:1 or 1+1 doesn't confuse me.

But I am curious. I always have marveled at how long D-76 keeps.
Has anyone offered amazing stories of longevity for ID-11?

ID-11 keeps the same as D76, up to a year or so in a decent bottle. A similar developer Autophen, Ilford's Commercial Fine Grain PQ developer which was a PQ variant of D76/ID-11 was used continuously (with replenishment) by one laboratory for many years, unlike D76/ID-11 it didn't suddenly collapse due to Bromide build up and the two replenishers were better balance to reflect actual exhaustion.

Because of the Bromide build up D76 and ID-11 need "bleed replenishment" where some developer is removed to help reduce the Bromide levels before adding replenisher, it's not efficient and ultimately the Bromide level reaches a level where it suppresses the Metol. Because Bromide has far less effect on suppressing the activity of Phenidone replenished Autophen never suffers from Bromide build up so can be replenished by a top up replenisher, effectively just replacing the volume that was used, a far more economic way of working. Because older photo finishing machines used the bleed method two different replenishers were offered.

Ian

 

[darkroommike]

This might sound stupid since I don't use either anymore, but I did years ago and it was the first two developers I ever used. I talk college Photography Arts course #101 and D76 was required for use with Tri-X 35mm. Toward the end of the course I ran out of D76 and bought ID11 instead. People might not believe this, but I did see a difference in my Ilfobrom prints even at 8x10 size. I used it for the rest of the course and passed with flying colors. I never used D76 again. I'm sure they, Kodak and Ilford, probably changed some of the formula since the 70's so I can't say about now. Either would work so toss a coin and call it!

It's also possible that you might have learned a thing or two and your negatives looked better since you were making better negatives.

 

[darkroommike]

While ID-11 replenisher has been discontinued, the different packaging (two part vs. single part) allows you to still use ID-11 in a replenishment regime - something that doesn't work with D-76 since D-76 replenisher is no longer available.

Here are the ID-11 replenishment instructions (from the new Ilford website): https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/2009/product_id/708/

Towards the end of the D76r production Kodak also introduced a new replenishment scheme, 2002 version of J-78 that used 5 parts D76 plus 1 part D76r for people using any amount of Tmax rolls in their processing runs. http://125px.com/docs/techpubs/kodak/j78-2002_10.pdf

 

[John Wiegerink]

It's also possible that you might have learned a thing or two and your negatives looked better since you were making better negatives.

You could be right. One thing I have learned over all these many years is that there are many, many things that are possible that I never ever thought were and I almost never say never anymore.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I had a good friend that kept a tank of D76 going for many years in his basement. I'm talking double digit years. He had about 35 0r 40 little Boston brown bottles for of his homemade replenisher. He was an artist, painter/photographer, and his work was first rate. I got all his darkroom equipment and chemicals when he was called to do a portrait of God, but not his formulas. I end up dumping all his mixed chemistry since I was using HC-100 at the time. I should maybe have dump my HC-110 and switched to his. Just kidding of course.

Many labs kept a d76replenished labs going for years, I had one going for quite awhile this was very popular.

 

[darkroommike]

1:1 would be stock

Not THIS again, Kodak notation is 1 part stock and 1 part water and is read as 1 to 1 NOT 1 of 1 or 1 in 1. It is a ratio not a dilution. ABC pyro, Kodak D-1 would be something like 1:1:1:100 (and I know I probably have the ratio wrong). Search any number of APUG posts from the past. You can do it anyway you want, Chris, but don't mess with over a hundreds years of tradition with pedantry that just confuses new users.

 

[John Wiegerink]

ID-11 keeps the same as D76, up to a year or so in a decent bottle. A similar developer Autophen, Ilford's Commercial Fine Grain PQ developer which was a PQ variant of D76/ID-11 was used continuously (with replenishment) by one laboratory for many years, unlike D76/ID-11 it didn't suddenly collapse due to Bromide build up and the two replenishers were better balance to reflect actual exhaustion.

Because of the Bromide build up D76 and ID-11 need "bleed replenishment" where some developer is removed to help reduce the Bromide levels before adding replenisher, it's not efficient and ultimately the Bromide level reaches a level where it suppresses the Metol. Because Bromide has far less effect on suppressing the activity of Phenidone replenished Autophen never suffers from Bromide build up so can be replenished by a top up replenisher, effectively just replacing the volume that was used, a far more economic way of working. Because older photo finishing machines used the bleed method two different replenishers were offered.

Ian

Ian,
I have no idea how my friend replenished his D76 over those years or what was in his "special replenisher" as he never told me before he died and I wasn't really interested in it at the time. I do know he had another best friend who was a science teacher at a local college and that guy was also a darkroom junky. That friend used the same D76 replenished system. I'm guessing that the friend is the one who did all the "special" replenisher and set it up. I'll never no and would only want to out of curiosity since I would not change from my Xtol replienished now.

 

[darkroommike]

Ian,
I have no idea how my friend replenished his D76 over those years or what was in his "special replenisher" as he never told me before he died and I wasn't really interested in it at the time. I do know he had another best friend who was a science teacher at a local college and that guy was also a darkroom junky. That friend used the same D76 replenished system. I'm guessing that the friend is the one who did all the "special" replenisher and set it up. I'll never no and would only want to out of curiosity since I would not change from my Xtol replienished now.

I suspect a lot of those "old hands" were into the alchemy of the thing and had made up stock solutions, when the character of their big tanks changed they would add a little bit of this of a little bit of that, kind of like Momma's pot of perpetual soup. If they were not running controls strips, and I can almost guarantee that most of them were not, they had no idea what kind of "soup" they were actually using.

Most of the time the manufacturer of your developer/replenisher system recommends dumping and mixing a new batch when a volume of replenisher equivalent to the volume of your tank was introduced to keep developer by-products from changing the developer character too much. Some mix/replenish schemes got quite complex.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The reality is that the average user is not going to see any difference between the two developers. The biggest difference is in the buffering and well the idea of buffering is to smooth over differences. This is all a tempest in a tea cup.

 

[zanxion72]

With both being almost identical and short living when diluted to stock, it pays well learning to mix your own with metol, HQ, S. Sulfate and borax. It is not difficult and a fresh stock of developer will always be ready to use.

 

[37th Exposure]

I just received a few 5 liter boxes of ID-11 from B&H and the USA ingredient listing shows Sodium SulfAte in addition to Sodium SulfIte. What is the SulFATE for? I thought that's only for tropical developers and some stop baths. I've never heard of this addition to normal MQ borax fine grain developers.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I just received a few 5 liter boxes of ID-11 from B&H and the USA ingredient listing shows Sodium SulfAte in addition to Sodium SulfIte. What is the SulFATE for? I thought that's only for tropical developers and some stop baths. I've never heard of this addition to normal MQ borax fine grain developers.

Are you positive the MSDS says sulfate? If so then it is probably a typo. The following is Ilford's specification.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/pdf/msds/ilford/ID-11_B.PDF

 

[37th Exposure]

View media item 55096

 

[37th Exposure]

Last Chem listed

 

[MattKing]

The picture of the box for ID-11 on Ilford's website includes the following:

 

[37th Exposure]

But why sulFATE added too? Just wondering. I never knew it was a D76/ID11 variant and what does it do? Tropical use?

 

[37th Exposure]

View media item 55097

Oops. Here is original pic of the box I just got today

 

[Bill Burk]

After hearing the answer to my question... I would say either developer would work as well. Though I rarely ever use any other than Kodak D-76, I would use ID-11 if I had to.