ID-11 alternative?

bernard_L · Feb 24, 2024

Paul Howell said:
There are many versions of D76, the Kodak version has changed over the past 100 or so years

Indeed, and these posts from 3+ years ago

Alternate d76 formulas, worth trying?

I always found better tonal range with replenished developers better shadow and highlight details, un-replenished developer give harsher results in terms of contrast.. Ian Some films esp., Foma gives green color liquid after pre-wash. I don't know what dyes they are but I wonder whether they...

www.photrio.com

Alternate d76 formulas, worth trying?

I noticed on Ian's web site a Kodak formula for D-76 based on the Australian MSDS. Maybe not now, but in times past, the Australian MSDS docs had more detail than those in other countries, presumably because of local regulations. I told this to Bill Troop years ago and he found it very useful...

www.photrio.com

and other ones that thread provide some (IMO) evidence that the current commercial Kodak D-76 is buffered with 4g borax + 2g boric acid. Somewhere between "historical" D-76 and D-76d. ID11?? IDK.

Paul Howell · Feb 24, 2024

Not sure if Clayton F76 is available in the E.U. I used DDX and Tmax developer for T grain film with good results. As T grain films have fine grain Tmax and DDX were developed for speed and acuatance. Maybe ISO 100 PF4 or Foma 100 would be fine in DDX, I guess in MF and LF gain would be an issue. HC110 or LIfordtech HC would be better choice TriX, HP5, Foma 400. Saying that, some folks prefer apparent sharpness over small gain, in that case DDX or Rodinal.

darkroommike · Feb 24, 2024

Carnie Bob said:
D76 is the same developer I think.

The published formulas for D-76 and ID-11 ARE identical but both have "secret sauce" ingredients that are proprietary trade secrets to make them less likely to increase in pH as they are stored and also make them simpler to mix.

cliveh · Feb 24, 2024

Mixing D76 is a bit like pouring draught Guinness. You have to wait for it. Never use on the same day you mix.

Milpool · Feb 24, 2024

The only sauces are the sequestering compounds in D-76 to allow for single packages/mixing.

darkroommike said:
The published formulas for D-76 and ID-11 ARE identical but both have "secret sauce" ingredients that are proprietary trade secrets to make them less likely to increase in pH as they are stored and also make them simpler to mix.

john_s · Feb 24, 2024

Milpool said:
The only sauces are the sequestering compounds in D-76 to allow for single packages/mixing.

There is some evidence that the formula changed. See above packaging from Kodak Australia, which lists boric acid as well as borax, which would improve buffering. That might help if not using it single shot.

Alex Benjamin · Feb 24, 2024

Daniela said:
I just checked the 4 or 5 usual stores where I buy supplies and ID-11 is out of stock everywhere. Finally found a shop in Lille, put in an order only to get a phone call later telling me that it's out of stock and they don't expect new supplies for another month. No clue as to why this is happening...So, what other developers compare? I really like the fine grain and contrast I get with it.
Thanks!

I would suggest you keep some D-23 around in case you have difficulty getting hold of D-76 or ID-11. Main ingredients (Metol & Sodium sulfite) are the same, and you can easily get a few back-up packages from Photographers Formulary. That's what I did, and like D-23 so much that it has become my main developer (I now keep a couple of packs of ID-11 as back-ups).

Contrast is easily controllable through agitation.

Melvin J Bramley · Feb 24, 2024

cliveh said:
Mixing D76 is a bit like pouring draught Guinness. You have to wait for it. Never use on the same day you mix.

There is no way I am going to pour a draught Guinness then wait a day to drink it!

Philippe-Georges · Feb 25, 2024

There is a "human friendly" version of D-76 (and Dektol), by Chris Patton (Stanford.edu) lacking Hydroquinone and Metol.

BTW: I always wondered if (standard-) Dektol could be 'altered' so it could be used as a decent film developer, just in case when D-76 wasn't available.
Dektol's (= D-72) formula looks so similar as D-76...

bernard_L · Feb 25, 2024

cliveh said:
You have to wait for it. Never use on the same day you mix.

I have like you read this time and again. But never in the Eastman Kodak printed literature.
Is that your personal experience? Like, e.g., identical exposed frames, develop one as soon as mixed dev has cooled down to 20°C, second one 24hrs later?

Philippe-Georges · Feb 25, 2024

bernard_L said:
I have like you read this time and again. But never in the Eastman Kodak printed literature.
Is that your personal experience? Like, e.g., identical exposed frames, develop one as soon as mixed dev has cooled down to 20°C, second one 24hrs later?

I recall (if memory works well) to have read somewhere in an old Kodak publication about "seasoning" fresh film developer by adding some 'old' (yet not used-) developer just before use, if any is left ofcourse.

Craig · Feb 25, 2024

bernard_L said:
I have like you read this time and again. But never in the Eastman Kodak printed literature.

Same in Ilford literature, they explicitly say after mixing at a higher temperature, as soon as the developer cools to the processing temp it is ready to use.

Keith Tapscott. · Feb 25, 2024

Milpool said:
The only sauces are the sequestering compounds in D-76 to allow for single packages/mixing.

A patent I read years ago about single powder developers mentioned Lithium hydrochloride being used in the packaging. I wonder if that helps it to dissolve more easily. It's probably present in a very small quantity.

dokko · Feb 25, 2024

Philippe-Georges said:
There is a "human friendly" version of D-76 (and Dektol), by Chris Patton (Stanford.edu) lacking Hydroquinone and Metol.

if it's lacking Hydroquinone and Metol, then it isn't D-76 ; )

Philippe-Georges said:
BTW: I always wondered if (standard-) Dektol could be 'altered' so it could be used as a decent film developer, just in case when D-76 wasn't available.
Dektol's (= D-72) formula looks so similar as D-76...

this likely isn't going to work since D-72 contains Sodium carbonate which raises the pH value significantly.

Keith Tapscott. · Feb 25, 2024

Keith Tapscott. said:
A patent I read years ago about single powder developers mentioned Lithium hydrochloride being used in the packaging. I wonder if that helps it to dissolve more easily. It's probably present in a very small quantity.

I should have written lithium hydroxide, my mistake.
Anyway, Daniela wants to buy packaged ID11 which hopefully will be available again soon.

Milpool · Feb 25, 2024

Kodak had several patents in the 1950s related to packaging powder developers in single packets. In that context I recall lithium hydroxide being used mostly in highly alkaline developer formulas in place of sodium hydroxide but you might be right. An example of a stabilizing compound for single packaging is boric anhydride (still used in D-76…).

Keith Tapscott. said:
A patent I read years ago about single powder developers mentioned Lithium hydrochloride being used in the packaging. I wonder if that helps it to dissolve more easily. It's probably present in a very small quantity.

Keith Tapscott. · Feb 25, 2024

Milpool said:
Kodak had several patents in the 1950s related to packaging powder developers in single packets. In that context I recall lithium hydroxide being used mostly in highly alkaline developer formulas in place of sodium hydroxide but you might be right. An example of a stabilizing compound for single packaging is boric anhydride (still used in D-76…).

Yes, boric anhydride was mentioned in the patent too along with lithium hydroxide. It was a developer of the D76 type.

darkroommike · Feb 25, 2024

Philippe-Georges said:
There is a "human friendly" version of D-76 (and Dektol), by Chris Patton (Stanford.edu) lacking Hydroquinone and Metol.

BTW: I always wondered if (standard-) Dektol could be 'altered' so it could be used as a decent film developer, just in case when D-76 wasn't available.
Dektol's (= D-72) formula looks so similar as D-76...

D-72 in early usage was another "universal" developer, depending on dilution it could be used for films, plates, magic lantern slides and a whole slew of different paper types. The only thing it was NOT suitable for was miniature films like 127, 828, and 35mm. It's "close cousing is D-19. Early versions of Kodak info and Photo Lab index list many more possibilities than later info. If you are mixing your own, with 6 chemicals you can nearly mix every powdered chemical that Kodak and Ilford make, or at least their non-proprietary versions. D-72 uses a lot of sodium carbonate, a very active and alkaline accelerator; D-76 uses a small amount of borax, a very mild alkali accelerator.

darkroommike · Feb 25, 2024

Milpool said:
The only sauces are the sequestering compounds in D-76 to allow for single packages/mixing.

And which version of D-76 are you referring to?

pbromaghin · Feb 26, 2024

I love PanF at 1/2 speed in D23. The extra exposure brings up detail in the shadows while the developer keeps the highlights under control. Thanks to Analogue Andy for cluing me in to that. For other films, I have one more bag of D76 left, but after that D23 has given me the confidence to make my own. It's just D23 with a couple more ingredients. Easy Peasy.

Richard Jepsen · Feb 26, 2024

I have often switched between D-76/ID-11 and XTOL. They both are general purpose developers. You can make the case XTOL has the advantage on ID-11 but at my size prints I don’t see a meaningful difference. Advantage XTOL is its fully researched with developing times applied to films.

brian steinberger · Feb 26, 2024

Richard Jepsen said:
I have often switched between D-76/ID-11 and XTOL. They both are general purpose developers. You can make the case XTOL has the advantage on ID-11 but at my size prints I don’t see a meaningful difference. Advantage XTOL is its fully researched with developing times applied to films.

As well as Xtol offers 1/3 or even 2/3 of a stop more film speed over D-76/ID-11.

I still prefer ID-11 1:1 to Xtol however. I feel ID-11 gives me a “grittier” feel than Xtol. Atleast with HP5 anyway. This is all very subjective of course.

Philippe-Georges · Feb 26, 2024

As we are talking now about the relation between film and developer; I am about to try Ilford SFX200/120 (with a deep orange filter, HOYA O25).
I was thinking on processing it in XT-3 1+1, as I have it standing ready mixed.
Ilford advises ILFOTEC DD-X, which I don't have in house nor do I have ID-11, but I can easily mix E-76.

Any thoughts?

Philippe-Georges · Feb 28, 2024

Disregard my previous post, I solved it.

brian steinberger · Feb 28, 2024

Just FYI, KHB photografix in Canada has ID-11 in stock. I just bought a 5L box.

ID-11 alternative?

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