I need a long lasting fixer solution.

Radost · Nov 29, 2022

I shoot maybe 5 - 7 films a month sometimes 3. In the summer I shoot a lot more when I go to Ukraine.
Here is my problem.
I use to use Kodak pro liquid fixer. Then I switched to Ilford rapid fix for the easier wash.
But I keep getting my unmixed solution go milky and stinky. I put heavy gas when I close them.
I have never made a second mix from my liquid fixers and I keep waiting money.
I really like the Ilford rapid fix but my last one died. I opened 2nd of June, sealed it with heavy gas in the original bottle and opened yesterday.
What is a good solution? Is powder better to store long term? Should I mix the whole concentrate for a longer shelf life?

halfaman · Nov 29, 2022

You can try neutral or alkaline fixers, they should have much better shelf life. Moersch gives 5-8 years for the opened concentrate.

Moersch ATS alcaline fixer 1l

Moersch alkaline ammonium thiosulfate fast fixer bath, 1 liter of concentrate, suitable for film and paper. Shelf life for closed…

www.macodirect.de

Stop bath is a must after developer with alkaline fixer and you should wash between stop and fixer to maintain pH.

Radost · Nov 29, 2022

halfaman said:
You can try neutral or alkaline fixers, they should have much better shelf life. Moersch gives 5-8 years for the opened concentrate.

Moersch ATS alcaline fixer 1l

Moersch alkaline ammonium thiosulfate fast fixer bath, 1 liter of concentrate, suitable for film and paper. Shelf life for closed…

www.macodirect.de

Stop bath is a must after developer with alkaline fixer and you should wash between stop and fixer to maintain pH.

I always use a stop bath. I actually don’t have the problem with the mixed developer but with the concentrated solution.
Just remembered I purchased ECO natural fixer 1 and 1/2 year ago. Will open and lead test it.

koraks · Nov 29, 2022

See if you can get C41 fixer, e.g. Fuji. The concentrate keeps very well even in an opened jug.

Radost · Nov 29, 2022

koraks said:
See if you can get C41 fixer, e.g. Fuji. The concentrate keeps very well even in an opened jug.

I have a Fuji hunt fixer. and yes it does last. Did not even think to use it on BW.

koraks · Nov 29, 2022

It'll work great for B&W; I use it all the time for everything

john_s · Nov 29, 2022

koraks said:
It'll work great for B&W; I use it all the time for everything

Me too, when I could get it (Agfa, then Kodak or Fuji/Hunt), but here it's getting expensive. It definitely keeps well. I have some Agfa unopened from maybe 10 years ago that still hasn't precipitated.

halfaman · Nov 29, 2022

Just look if your fixer is standard or RA. The latter is based on ammonium thiocyanate and it has a very, very fast action, it would need some adjustement in the dilutions or time with B/W.

gone · Nov 29, 2022

I use the Arista Premium Odorless Fixer from Freestyle for films and paper both. It's a rapid, concentrated fixer, and will last a long time after it's opened. I reuse it too, when I remember not to dump it out of habit. Even after developing several rolls of film, a clip test shows it's still very active.

Cheap too, $11.99 at Freestyle for 32 oz. That's a convenient size for me and I always buy at least 2 bottles. That way I don't need to worry about it going bad over time in a larger size over time, I just keep one unopened for when I need it.

Donald Qualls · Nov 29, 2022

koraks said:
See if you can get C41 fixer, e.g. Fuji. The concentrate keeps very well even in an opened jug.

I can confirm that Kodak Flexicolor fixer will keep many years in the original bottle; I've got some in current use in my darkroom that has spent multiple summers and winters in a shed and was "expired" when it went into storage. It's also very fast working -- even after a dozen rolls in a liter, it'll clear B&W film in thirty seconds or so (which would give a one minute total fixing time). I don't know any reason Fuji Hunt C-41 fixer would be any different.

pentaxuser · Nov 29, 2022

Radost said:
I shoot maybe 5 - 7 films a month sometimes 3. In the summer I shoot a lot more when I go to Ukraine.
Here is my problem.
I use to use Kodak pro liquid fixer. Then I switched to Ilford rapid fix for the easier wash.
But I keep getting my unmixed solution go milky and stinky. I put heavy gas when I close them.
I have never made a second mix from my liquid fixers and I keep waiting money.
I really like the Ilford rapid fix but my last one died. I opened 2nd of June, sealed it with heavy gas in the original bottle and opened yesterday.
What is a good solution? Is powder better to store long term? Should I mix the whole concentrate for a longer shelf life?

None of the current respondents to your thread seems to be puzzled by the fact that you open a bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer in June, use some of it then put inert gas into the remaining concentrate, close the bottle and then re-open it in late November to find it has died

So to summarise what I think you have said: A new fresh bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer properly covered with inert gas after opening once in June has died 6 months later.

I have used Ilford Rapid Fixer since 2005 and never had it die in 6 months after one opening when using inert gas so maybe something else went wrong? How do you know it has died? What test did you use to establish its death?

Have a look at a thread by chip j on page 2 called "How long does fixer last" that may give you some ideas of users' experience. None seem to report death in 6 months

pentaxuser

koraks · Nov 29, 2022

pentaxuser said:
None of the current respondents to your thread seems to be puzzled by the fact that you open a bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer in June, use some of it then put inert gas into the remaining concentrate, close the bottle and then re-open it in late November to find it has died

Not after reports of unopened and within-date fixer concentrate sulfuring out etc. on e.g. LFPF. Might have been an old bottle that sat on a shelf for some time, might have been stored under less-than-optimal conditions, might have been...anything really. In general fixer concentrate should fare better under these circumstances, but accidents happen, as they say.

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 29, 2022

I've pretty much only ever used Ilford's Rapid Fixer since I got into this hobby. I've never had it go bad... But... I've never kept an opened bottle for longer than about three months.

Alex Benjamin · Nov 29, 2022

pentaxuser said:
None of the current respondents to your thread seems to be puzzled by the fact that you open a bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer in June, use some of it then put inert gas into the remaining concentrate, close the bottle and then re-open it in late November to find it has died

So to summarise what I think you have said: A new fresh bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer properly covered with inert gas after opening once in June has died 6 months later.

I have used Ilford Rapid Fixer since 2005 and never had it die in 6 months after one opening when using inert gas so maybe something else went wrong? How do you know it has died? What test did you use to establish its death?

Have a look at a thread by chip j on page 2 called "How long does fixer last" that may give you some ideas of users' experience. None seem to report death in 6 months

pentaxuser

6 months is also what Ilford notes as deadline, as per the technical data sheet:

Radost · Nov 29, 2022

pentaxuser said:
None of the current respondents to your thread seems to be puzzled by the fact that you open a bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer in June, use some of it then put inert gas into the remaining concentrate, close the bottle and then re-open it in late November to find it has died

So to summarise what I think you have said: A new fresh bottle of Ilford Rapid Fixer properly covered with inert gas after opening once in June has died 6 months later.

I have used Ilford Rapid Fixer since 2005 and never had it die in 6 months after one opening when using inert gas so maybe something else went wrong? How do you know it has died? What test did you use to establish its death?

Have a look at a thread by chip j on page 2 called "How long does fixer last" that may give you some ideas of users' experience. None seem to report death in 6 months

pentaxuser

It is muddy and cloudy.
Yes I have heard people filter it but I am not willing to do it. I rather use fresh Chems

pentaxuser · Nov 29, 2022

Radost said:
It is muddy and cloudy.
Yes I have heard people filter it but I am not willing to do it. I rather use fresh Chems

OK it's your choice. I just hope that the alternatives that are being suggested are those that definitely last longer under the same circumstances as that in which the Ilford Rapid Fixer may have died or not died despite being muddy and cloudy.

If Ilford Rapid Fixer is that bad in terms of life compared to C41 fixer and especially that of Moersch fixer then I am surprised that Ilford gets any sales for it. It just seems that C41 fixer and Moersch fixer are not a bit better but a quantum leap better.

Incidentally and I accept not germane to Radost's problem but can anyone explain why at 1+5 for film a litre only does 12 films? For a 35mm Jobo tank that's 40ml of fixer and 200mls of water. Isn't that 25 films? Even for a Paterson tank holding 300ml it's 50ml of fixer so 20 films?

Thanks

pentaxuser

faberryman · Nov 29, 2022

From the Ilford Rapid Fixer data sheet:

Full, unopened bottles of ILFORD RAPID FIXER concentrate stored in cool conditions, 5–20ºC (41–68ºF), will keep for two years. Once opened use completely within six months and keep all bottles tightly sealed until used.

If you don't use 1 liter of Ilford Rapid Fixer in six months, you can buy it in 500ml containers.

BAC1967 · Nov 29, 2022

I use Photographers Formulary TF-5 Archival Fix, it lasts a very long time. It takes me over a year to go through a one liter bottle of concentrate which will make 4 liters of solution. I only mix up a new batch because it gets gunky from all the silver, not because it stops working. I don't do anything special to store it.

https://stores.photoformulary.com/tf-5-archival-fix/

Alex Benjamin · Nov 29, 2022

BAC1967 said:
I use Photographers Formulary TF-5 Archival Fix, it lasts a very long time. It takes me over a year to go through a one liter bottle of concentrate which will make 4 liters of solution. I only mix up a new batch because it gets gunky from all the silver, not because it stops working. I don't do anything special to store it.

https://stores.photoformulary.com/tf-5-archival-fix/

TF-4, stock solution, also has a shelf life of one year.

john_s · Nov 29, 2022

pentaxuser said:
OK it's your choice. I just hope that the alternatives that are being suggested are those that definitely last longer under the same circumstances as that in which the Ilford Rapid Fixer may have died or not died despite being muddy and cloudy.

.......

pentaxuser

It's about pH. C-41 fixers are close to neutral (and hence have minimal odour as a bonus) and do not contain their "seeds of destruction," i.e. acid. Agfa Australia used to label their C-41 fixer for black and white usage as well as for C-41.

pentaxuser · Nov 29, 2022

john_s said:
It's about pH. C-41 fixers are close to neutral (and hence have minimal odour as a bonus) and do not contain their "seeds of destruction," i.e. acid. Agfa Australia used to label their C-41 fixer for black and white usage as well as for C-41.

How close to neutral are C41 fixers and on which side, the alkaline side or acid side? Ilford Rapid Fixer is close enough to neutral for it not to affect the stain in staining developers according to Andrew O'Neill's video so is there a point at which close to neutral is still not close enough to make it equal C41 fixer longevity and as per my question above how much more the wrong side of neutral is it than C41?

Thanks

pentaxuser

koraks · Nov 29, 2022

pentaxuser said:
How close to neutral are C41 fixers and on which side, the alkaline side or acid side?

6.5-ish usually. Quite strongly buffered as well.

pentaxuser said:
Ilford Rapid Fixer is close enough to neutral for it not to affect the stain in staining developers according to Andrew O'Neill's video

You might want to watch that again - fixer doesn't matter when it comes to stain. Ilford rapid fix is pretty acidic. Doesn't hurt the stain.

craigclu · Nov 29, 2022

I've had reason to develop many non-critical films in the last few years and used the opportunity to check chemicals and techniques. Good reason to burn up some freezer stash, too. I am absolutely amazed at an old gallon of TF-4 that will not die. I decant and mix from its 1 gallon to working solution in quarts. I've gotten to trust it and it's been my go-to for many years. I only use a water rinse after developer.

rjbuzzclick · Nov 29, 2022

Radost said:
I shoot maybe 5 - 7 films a month sometimes 3. In the summer I shoot a lot more when I go to Ukraine.
Here is my problem.
I use to use Kodak pro liquid fixer. Then I switched to Ilford rapid fix for the easier wash.
But I keep getting my unmixed solution go milky and stinky. I put heavy gas when I close them.
I have never made a second mix from my liquid fixers and I keep waiting money.
I really like the Ilford rapid fix but my last one died. I opened 2nd of June, sealed it with heavy gas in the original bottle and opened yesterday.
What is a good solution? Is powder better to store long term? Should I mix the whole concentrate for a longer shelf life?

I use Ilford Rapid Fixer and decant leftover concentrate into smaller bottles filled all the way up and am able to keep it longer than six months.

revdoc · Nov 29, 2022

Recently I had a bottle of Ilford Rapid Fix go bad about 8 months after opening. It was pretty annoying.

Consequently, I'm going back to what I was doing previously: buying 1kg containers of sodium thiosulfate and making fixer as needed. It works just fine, and hypo crystals last for many years.

I need a long lasting fixer solution.

Radost

halfaman

Moersch ATS alcaline fixer 1l

Radost

Moersch ATS alcaline fixer 1l

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