I need a different 8x10 camera.

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dpurdy

dpurdy

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Mr. Richard T. Ritter, the actual builder of many of the Zone VI cameras, is still active. He built a gorgeous Graflok back for my Zone VI 4x5, and he DOES make a relatively-light 8x10. He could likely refurbish your Zone VI 8x10 since he probably built it! 😁
That is interesting. I doubt he built mine unless he was the original builder for Fred Picker. I think not long after I got mine they changed builders. I thought the new version was somehow related to Deardorff cameras but that is a vague memory from many years ago.
 
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dpurdy

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What about some rehab of the old Zone VI? Some strategic nylon washers to help the knobs bite down on the other metal parts more?

I'm pretty sure that only a Chamonix or an Intrepid will help you save any worthwhile weight.
Yes I think it is time for that for sure. Also I could dismantle and clean and lube my Bogen tripod. I used to use a wooden Zone 6 tripod but twice I came to the studio and found the tripod collapsed and my camera broken on the floor. Both times I rebuilt it with yellow wood glue. The camera is and has always been a PIA to set up and put in zero position. It is just a crappy camera. However I think of spending a few thousand on it and I think.. maybe I should spend that on film and palladium instead. Look at the PIA as just my cross to bear.
 

BillBaileyImages

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That is interesting. I doubt he built mine unless he was the original builder for Fred Picker. I think not long after I got mine they changed builders. I thought the new version was somehow related to Deardorff cameras but that is a vague memory from many years ago.

I believe he WAS at least one of the builders for Fred Picker, and Mr. Ritter is a gentleman and a fine craftsman. Contacting him will gain you some helpful information, and possibly a new 8x10.
 

koraks

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I've seen the Intrepid mentioned a couple of times. It is indeed lightweight, and that's a distinct advantage over other cameras. It's the reason I got it to complement the Sinar. However, it's also a downright rickety affair. Using it with 'heavy' lenses (think your average 300/5.6, let alone bigger) makes manipulation of the front standard cumbersome and it's challenging to make precise movements - let alone do them smoothly.

It's lightweight.
It's cheap.
It's not precise or rigid.

Picky any two from the list...
 

Rob Skeoch

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I doubt if I'm going to answer your question in this posting but let me try. For years I ran "Big Camera Workshops", I taught large format across Canada and was a distributor for a number of brands. The workshops were based on the Zone VI 4x5 and I owned six of them for students to use. However I used an Ebony SV810 myself and can understand why you would only want to shoot 810. I never should have sold the Ebony 810 but I did.
Before that I used a Deardorff and then a Wisner. The Ebony was new but was way ahead of either of the other brands.
The SV810 is expensive (triple bed), but they also made a RW810 (double bed) which was less costly and rather popular from a sales point of view. Maybe you can find a RW810 on ebay or somewhere, it would be my best suggestion.
-Rob Skeoch.
 

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ā€œā€¦and I think.. maybe I should spend that on film and palladium instead. Look at the PIA as just my cross to bear.ā€

A quite reasonable approach. There’s an appropriate wise saying about ā€œthe devil you knowā€. :smile:
 
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dpurdy

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I doubt if I'm going to answer your question in this posting but let me try. For years I ran "Big Camera Workshops", I taught large format across Canada and was a distributor for a number of brands. The workshops were based on the Zone VI 4x5 and I owned six of them for students to use. However I used an Ebony SV810 myself and can understand why you would only want to shoot 810. I never should have sold the Ebony 810 but I did.
Before that I used a Deardorff and then a Wisner. The Ebony was new but was way ahead of either of the other brands.
The SV810 is expensive (triple bed), but they also made a RW810 (double bed) which was less costly and rather popular from a sales point of view. Maybe you can find a RW810 on ebay or somewhere, it would be my best suggestion.
-Rob Skeoch.

I found one on ebay.... $14,000.00
 

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If you need to hike with it, very rigid yet lightweight 8x10 folders can be obtained, but at a steep price, unless you are lucky enough to encounter a good deal on a used one. I've used a Phillips 8X10 almost from its inception (I own serial no.9), and still hike around with it at age 75. Part of the secret is a good external frame backpack and serious tripod choices. Never compromise tripod quality or stability. I don't use any tripod head; the camera rests directly atop the tripod platform itself for maximum rigidity.
 

lecarp

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That is interesting. I doubt he built mine unless he was the original builder for Fred Picker. I think not long after I got mine they changed builders. I thought the new version was somehow related to Deardorff cameras but that is a vague memory from many years ago.

I believe it was Wisner building the zone VI cameras for a while not Deardorff, then Calumet bought the name and started selling a lesser camera.
 

lecarp

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If you need to hike with it, very rigid yet lightweight 8x10 folders can be obtained, but at a steep price, unless you are lucky enough to encounter a good deal on a used one. I've used a Phillips 8X10 almost from its inception (I own serial no.9), and still hike around with it at age 75. Part of the secret is a good external frame backpack and serious tripod choices. Never compromise tripod quality or stability. I don't use any tripod head; the camera rests directly atop the tripod platform itself for maximum rigidity.

There is a Phillips Compact 11x14 on ebay now, a mere 14 grand as well. If I were crazy flush, she'd be mine.
 

DREW WILEY

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Let me resume my comments... The current equivalent to a Phillips folder would be Chamonix. A new one of those would probably be less expensive than a used rare Phillips.

I'd scratch Deardorff off the list - too heavy, and mostly too old by now. Wisner lightweight field cameras seemed way too fragile to me. Ebony will be unaffordable unless you are extremely lucky; I have one in 4x5. You might consider a Canham wooden folder, or perhaps Shen Hao. There are many options out there, but they are not all equally rigid. I question how long an inexpensive Intrepid would hold together. The Ritter design is intriguing as a lightweight option; but I've never handled one of those myself. Another novel ultralight I've never seen in person is the Wehman design.

Monorails? - yeah, Sinar is great, and the old Norma series in particular, if you can find a reasonably pristine one. But it's likely to be just too cumbersome and heavy when it comes to field portability in 8x10 size.
 
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MattKing

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Does anyone else see the thread title and think of this:? :whistling:
 

gary mulder

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I think you need a assistant to carry the gear. Including tripod and darkslides. Apart from it’s gigentic weight the most desirable camera I ever had the joy to use is a Sinar P2 8x10ā€ Otherwise it will always be a compromise.
 
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I've seen the Intrepid mentioned a couple of times. It is indeed lightweight, and that's a distinct advantage over other cameras. It's the reason I got it to complement the Sinar. However, it's also a downright rickety affair. Using it with 'heavy' lenses (think your average 300/5.6, let alone bigger) makes manipulation of the front standard cumbersome and it's challenging to make precise movements - let alone do them smoothly.

It's lightweight.
It's cheap.
It's not precise or rigid.

Picky any two from the list...

I have an 8x10 Deardorff. I also have a fairly recent version of the Intrepid 8x10.
I rarely take the Deardorff off the property, as I now find it too heavy to cart around. The Intrepid gets 5X as much use as the Deardorff for this reason.
But as Koraks has stated, the Intrepid is far from the sturdiest of all the cameras you could choose. Yes, it gets the job done, but the controls are fragile and fussy, and it would be ridiculously easy to break the camera if you bumped into something. Its only real advantages are weight and cost. Everything else about it screams "compromise". (Which is not to say I don't appreciate the benefits it offers)

If cost were not an issue, I would buy a Chamonix, without hesitation. It's lighter than my Deardorff and far more precise and well-made than the Intrepid. But its build quality is reflected in its price, of course.
Have you consulted Omer, the owner of CatLabs? He is a genius (really), sells only film gear, and is one of the best small-business owners I've had the privilege of knowing.

I have to assume this is extreme sarcasm.
 

koraks

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Everything else about it screams "compromise". (Which is not to say I don't appreciate the benefits it offers)

Indeed, and a compromise has its value. Sometimes, a suitable compromise is just what's needed. Having said that, I've used only the Intrepid for 8x10 for a year or so, but have now packed it back up and have gone back to using the Norma. One of the main reasons was the Intrepid's habit of having its bellows sag into the image frame with even minimal vertical rise using a 300/5.6. Its rickety stature doesn't instill much confidence either. Of course with the Norma, I'm back to being spatially impaired again.

I have to assume this is extreme sarcasm.

I very well remember the ruckus involving CatLabs some time ago; I'd rather not revisit that episode. It seemed to make a lot of people rather unhappy one way or another.
 

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I have used this early version Zone VI 8x10 for about 40 years. I have shot thousands of negs with it. However I have always hated it. It is heavy and it fights me and I can't trust the control knobs to hold anything securely. When I go to cock my lens I am liable to change the tilt of the front. Changing from horizontal to vertical back is very persnickety and fiddly. The focus gets easily out of track. Basically nothing about this camera is a joy to use. It just sucks. I have stuck with it all these years because I never had a lot of money and always there are more necessary things demanding my money so I just put up with it. Now however I am getting pretty old and the struggle to use this camera is getting to be more than I can deal with. Not to mention the struggle I have with this old heavy Bogen tripod. Today going from a low horizontal looking down camera position to a 5 feet up vertical position looking over a table top took me more than 30 minutes and I needed to take a long break after during which I am writing this post.

I am wondering what is the best no frills sort of light weight 8x10 with secure dependable controls. My Z6 is a wooden flat bed.. I wonder if I should think about a rail.
I am not ready to stop making new work maybe a better easier camera would keep me working longer.
Any advice?

Richard Ritter had a rebuilt Burke & James he put up for sale earlier this year. I don't know if it would lock down better than your ZVI and I don't know if it is still available, but the ad is here:


Contact info here:

 
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dpurdy

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I hope no one gets disgusted with me but I have made the decision to seriously try to revamp this old camera and fix its issues. This morning I decided to change lens and could not get the brackets pulled away enough to let go of the lens board. After some anger and choice words I started to examine what the f was wrong and realized I needed to loosen the screws that hold the bracket. A very quick slight loosening and the damn thing works like a charm. Here is something to remember, wooden cameras are made out of wood. High humidity of Summer makes wood swell up. Swollen wood makes screws get tighter. Now take the camera apart and wax the rail, put in some sort of stop so the front and rear standards don't roll off the rail. Figure out some way to make the tilt knobs more secure. That is the plan for now..
 

DREW WILEY

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Good luck with your camera tune-up. Avoid any kind of wax, finish, or lubricant with silicone in it (bad for wood and bellows material)

Better cameras are made with better, more dimensionally-stable wood. Of course, it needs to be properly sealed and maintained too. Ebony cameras employed either real ebony wood (quite heavy) or true slow-cured pattern grade Caribbean Mahogany. Pattern grade is now rare and difficult to obtain, and generally has to be salvaged from something else. Some cameras like the Canham use American black walnut, which is itself relatively dimensionally stable given the right cut and cure.

Then there are the cameras using hybrid plys which are very stable. The Phillips design used a laminate of fiberglass and thin epoxy-impregnated cherrywood layers. Chamonix uses a fair amount of carbon fiber along with wood in their own ply.
 

chuckroast

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Weeeeellll ....

You can use silicone-based lubricants on the metal surfaces, you just don't want to spray it all over the wood and bellows as you mention.

I have successfully used beeswax Zipper Ease (a paraffin wax) as a lubricant on the sliding surfaces/gear teeth of the camera bed and extensions without apparent harm.

I don't know about the 8x10 Wiser, but my 4x5 Wisner Technical Field was (allegedly) made with quartersawn Honduran mahogany.
 
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DREW WILEY

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Old Dorff's also used the real deal Mahogany, and no doubt certain other cameras. Wisner was a harpsichord maker prior to his camera venture, and did beautiful wood joinery on his Technical Field cameras, which are on the heavier side of his lineup, and quite pretty. I'm sure he would have chosen his material carefully. By contrast, his lightweight and Expedition cameras, though pretty too, didn't impress me as being very durable or stable; I'd be afraid to drop one on a pillow.

Even wooden masonry levels were once made with Caribbean pattern grade mahogany. That's why they didn't warp. All the "mahogany" levels made today do warp. All the proper kind of trees have already been cut down. And besides, it takes about eight years to properly cure it.

Now many substitute mahogany-like species, mainly from central Africa and Southeast Asia, are used for a variety of items. For picture frames, I once experimented with a fast-growing sustainable hybrid product called Lyptus, which resembles mahogany in color. But like Ebony wood, it sinks in water, eats up shaper carbide fast, and is ridiculously heavy - not a good camera choice.

I have some lengths of real Hondouran mahogany on my moulding loft, but it's not pattern grade.
 
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Arthurwg

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What I've always hankered for (but never handled) is a Deardorff -- but I don't know enough about them to make a recommendation.
I was never happy with Deardorffs because they didn't have "witness marks" showing the neutral positions.
 

BrianShaw

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I hope no one gets disgusted with me but I have made the decision to seriously try to revamp this old camera and fix its issues. This morning I decided to change lens and could not get the brackets pulled away enough to let go of the lens board. After some anger and choice words I started to examine what the f was wrong and realized I needed to loosen the screws that hold the bracket. A very quick slight loosening and the damn thing works like a charm. Here is something to remember, wooden cameras are made out of wood. High humidity of Summer makes wood swell up. Swollen wood makes screws get tighter. Now take the camera apart and wax the rail, put in some sort of stop so the front and rear standards don't roll off the rail. Figure out some way to make the tilt knobs more secure. That is the plan for now..

Bravo; huzzah!!!
 
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