I feel like giving up on home processing...

[Worker 11811]

Do you know how many rolls of film I f***ed up when I started? Calculators don't count that high!

Stick with the camera that is working, and keep your eye on it, as it's liable to STOP working.

I agree! Pick one camera, one film, one set of chemistry and use one method of using it all. Don't change anything unless you have to. (To solve a problem or correct a mistake.) Do everything the same way every time. Do it until you can do it with your eyes shut.
The quick answer is that using several cameras and doing things different ways introduces more variables into the system. When you are learning, you want to keep things as simple as possible until you understand how everything works.

I know it's discouraging when mistakes keep happening but this is the time to keep going, not the time to quit. The frustration is part of the learning process. Stop now and you won't learn anything. Everything you have done will be for nothing. In business, that's what's called a "sunk cost."

Keep it up! You'll get the hang of it!

As Thomas Edison said, "I have not failed. I have just found 1,000 ways that don't work."

 

[h.v.]

Ok, sorry for the delay in response. Lots to respond to, I'll try to respond to everything as best I can.

Also, before I begin, I also really want to thank all of you for your help. Your knowledge and help has been invaluable to me. I'm sorry I don't really reciprocate because compared to you guys, I really am not that knowledgeable or experienced in film photography.

You mentioned that recent C41 rolls turned out to be ok. Did you look at the negatives, or only the prints?

C41 can bear quite a bit of overexposure. I once shot a 400 film with 100 setting by mistake, and just looking at the prints I
didn't see a problem with them. Ok, comparing them with correct exposed prints reveiled that they are not as good, but
I saw it only when comparing them side by side.

So it could be the camera had the problem before and you just didn't notice it.

I admit I haven't looked closely, but the negs appear fine. I don't get prints, just dev+cut. Too expensive to pay for prints each time. I do get a little index card, though as a proof for before I do any scanning. And when I do scan, there isn't any real issue I've found. Just like I haven't had issue with previous B&W rolls.

I was helped through some of these start up issues by having a very good teacher way back in junior high school watch all that I was doing and evaluate results after every roll. We used the school's film, had to use the same camera for the semester, and basically it was all about eliminating variables. This has carried over to my more recent darkroom/processing work at home, and while I have experimented more than I probably should have with different film, much of my process is the same for each roll.

It sounds like you've gotten a lot of the basics honed in and are almost there, so keep at it. Maybe shoot only the Nikon for b&w at home until you get the Hexar figured out.

In a perfect world...

Problem is 90% of my work is street photography. I did use the Nikon F90 for street before, but there are a lot of hang ups I have with using it on the street. The focus motor, mirror slap, and auto film advance are just so loud, it is a massive deterrent. The Hexar has really liberated me and allowed me to get more shots that are great than I would've with the F90. I just can't see myself going back to that. It is the perfect street cam.

The only thing I can think of is there is an Olympus Stylus Epic (Mju I believe outside of North America) that I can get my hands on for $30. I've heard it's good for street photography, though I don't know how loud it is. Maybe I can snatch that up while I figure out the Hexar. I was thinking of getting it anyways for stuff through windows, as the Hexar doesn't really focus through windows well 95% of the time.

Do you do this intentionally and if so why?

That being said I find nothing wrong with the exposure of your negatives. They certainly appear to be within the latitude of the film. I am unfamiliar with the Hexar but from descriptions it appears to average the scene. If so then large portions of sky or shadow can throw off the metering. Meter on the most important element of the scene.

A last question is why are you using an aperture of f/2?

Yes, intentionally. Because it is what I always did on my Nikons. Not officially. I mean, through manual exposure, I'd always have it so the meter was a few bars to the right on the TTL meter. I find otherwise the photos tend to be too bright or flat. It's just a personal preference.

You don't find anything wrong with my negs? How so? There are a bunch that look almost black, with light bleeds. I almost always meter on the important part of the frame, the other times I don't by accident.

I'm not really using an aperture of f/2. I only use that when it isn't light enough. The Hexar works like this. You set the dial to the max aperture to use. The camera will override that if it maxes out at the 1/250th shutter and will go for a smaller aperture. Which happens all the time outdoors. I don't think I've ever shot wide open outside with the Hexar. Those photos all most have used at least f/8, up to f/22. That's why most of them don't have shallow DOF. The one of the kissing I don't know - but it could lead me to the issues some have mentioned - sticky shutter/aperture blades.

First of all, looking at the negs I see a lot of bleed between frames and the rebated edge on the overexposed frames. To me that says that if you changed nothing between the good shots and you see this overexposed result, you have a camera failure. Looks to me like the shutter is sticking or the aperture is sticking. Look into the lens from the front and the back with a magnifying glass and see if there is oil on either the aperture blades or the shutter blades. Most probably the shutter is causing the problem.

Secondly, take the camera and open the back or remove the back and aim the camera at a table lamp or some light source (illuminated white wall) and run twenty to forty exposures. Look into the back of the camera and get some sense of the amount of light you are seeing and then run the exposures. You will be able to see a much brighter 'flash' if you have a sticking shutter or the aperture blades are not closing. Between the lens shutters are extremely vulnerable to the slightest bit of oil. If the camera were left, for example, in a hot car during the summer months, the oils/grease will migrate from the focusing helicoid into the shutter blade/aperture blades. If it is not a migrating lube problem, then I would suspect a failure in the electronics.

Be sure when peering through the back of the camera to try all exposure modes including manual to see if the auto modes may be failing. Hopefully, this way you will be able to isolate the reason for the heavily overexposed frames. Also, try and duplicate the shooting situations you encounter by running the open back test outside. It is more difficult to evaluate in bright sunlight since your pupils will be closed but with that much overexposure you certainly will see a difference. Try different apertures, such as 16, and run a batch of dummy exposures. F16 will be obvious when you look through the back. If it fails to close down, you will see it immediately.

Lastly, doing the open back exercise may help if it is a camera that hasn't been used much. I typically will run a 100 open back exposures at all apertures and all shutter speeds with a new(used) camera just to exercise because most cameras I buy are likely to have been sitting in the closet and not used for a while.

It is definitely an exposure problem with the camera. Now it's up to you to find the issue! Good luck!

I will definitely try this. But not right now, I'm midway through some HP5. For now, I will try the earlier suggestion of shooting at f/2 then f/8 and see if anything is wonky on the processed neg.

Do you know how many rolls of film I f***ed up when I started? Calculators don't count that high!



I agree! Pick one camera, one film, one set of chemistry and use one method of using it all. Don't change anything unless you have to. (To solve a problem or correct a mistake.) Do everything the same way every time. Do it until you can do it with your eyes shut.
The quick answer is that using several cameras and doing things different ways introduces more variables into the system. When you are learning, you want to keep things as simple as possible until you understand how everything works.

I know it's discouraging when mistakes keep happening but this is the time to keep going, not the time to quit. The frustration is part of the learning process. Stop now and you won't learn anything. Everything you have done will be for nothing. In business, that's what's called a "sunk cost."

Keep it up! You'll get the hang of it!

As Thomas Edison said, "I have not failed. I have just found 1,000 ways that don't work."

Yeah. It's discouraging, but at least this time it isn't a processing issue. Which means this might be in the wrong forum. Sorry, feel free to move the thread.

For the most part, I have been using one camera, one film, one developer, everything the same. Only times I've dithered from this were with 2 F90 rolls and 1 roll of FP4. Everything else has been Hex + HP5.

---

The earlier notation about accidentally covering the exposure sensor could actually be true. I will be more conscious of that now that I checked the manual and know exactly where it is. It is really easy for one's finger to slip.

To the rest of you who said encouraging words and to not give up, thank you. I really appreciate it.

 

[chuck94022]

No one answered your question about camera cleaning. I would suggest you find a good camera repair shop to do this for you. You want them to do a CLA - Clean, Lubricate and Adjust. They should be able to tell you if you have problems in the shutter or aperture mechanisms, and they should be able to determine if the meter/auto exposure system is up to snuff.

This should not be horrendously expensive. But unless you moonlight as a watchmaker, you probably don't want to tackle doing it yourself.

 

[h.v.]

Yes, thank you. I forgot to mention that. And now I know what CLA stands for, I always was meaning to look that one up. It sounds like a simple procedure...I know I won't be able to know until I go to a repair shop ... or a camera shop that is affiliated with one (this is what I did when I had my issues way back with the F80)...but any rough ideas? Under $200? Under $100?

 

[MattPC]

I'm newish to home processing as well (3-4 yrs?). I've had difficulties too.
My experience is home processing of film is a necessary step that needs to be completed in order to permit the creativity that is wet printing. Lab processing seems to produce consistantly average results while my own processing seems to produce generaly good but occaisionaly catastrophic results. (fixer before developer anyone? at least i'm in the 99%...). Add the astonishing lattitude created by film processing combined with printing exposures/grade/burn/dodge/different papers/developers/processes etc etc and I'd say you're considering giving up before you've even started on the fun part!
Seriously, that scan and gimp/photoshop editing is frustrating, limiting and ulitmatly unrewarding. I only do that for a very occaisonal colour roll to fuflfill specific requests that I'm unable to decline (family...).
B.T.W my most recent RF CLA (yashica electro 35) was $AU150. But aussie wages/labour costs are very high.

good luck!

MattC

 

[madgardener]

<snip>

I really don't want to have to give up the Hexar, it's been a dream to use on the streets. So much easier than my Nikon's or my Yashica. So this cleaning - would it be easy to do myself?

Unless you are really handy or very brave, I wouldn't recommend a DIY CLA. Here in Pennsylvania they run about $150. If you're going to keep the camera, its a good investment. There are so many small gears, electronics,etc that is crammed into a small space, it's not something that would be easy to do.

 

[removed account4]

hi h.v.

i wish i had such good advice when i started out ..
one thing you might consider doing is getting a 100 foot long roll of film
and roll your own film cassettes. you won't save much $$ BUT you will be able
to shoot shorter rolls of film, maybe 12 exposures, like real estate agents used to shoot
and get the bugs out of the system. PLUS you will have more experience by the end of it all
spooling your film, and processing rolls

older cameras always need to be cla'd you and your camera will be much happier once you get it back to tip top shape.
i hate to suggest this, but one thing you might consider is a totally manual camera like a k1000 ( or similar )
so you can set the asa, set the shutter speed and set the focus yourself without worrying that the
camera's computer is on the blink. i got mine in 1981 and to be honest i would rather use it than
the more fancy 35mm cameras i have, its solid and dependable ...

 

[Worker 11811]

But unless you moonlight as a watchmaker, you probably don't want to tackle doing it yourself.

One of my favorite aphorisms: "There are two kinds of people who would disassemble an antique pocket watch; watchmakers and fools."

 

[Helinophoto]

Wait, you've been doing this for a month?

When I'd done self development for a month, I was still at "I develop at home and shoot black and white film" (I didn't have a real relation to what film-brands I was shooting at that stage yet even.)
Small steps makes for small mistakes, keep it as simple as possible, with as few variables as possible, then it's easier to identify and correct any mistakes.

I've made many (and still make them).
My start was like this: I was to develop my first black and white film, TMax developer mixed and ready in my accordian-bottle.
Then I ruined it before actual the processing, because I turned on the lights before I got it into the tank.
- I wanted to see what the heck the problem was, because I could not enter the bloddy film on the reel in the dark.

I still developed the film though, just to go trough the process and debug my reel-loading procedure.

Maybe you are expecting too much, too fast? It does indeed take time and effort over a longer period to get to know the process better, be patient and don't kill yourself over every mistake, learn and move on.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

You don't find anything wrong with my negs? How so? There are a bunch that look almost black, with light bleeds. I almost always meter on the important part of the frame, the other times I don't by accident.

The only two negatives that seem very dark are #19 and #20 in trhe lower right hand corner. Medium and fast speed films have a latitude of from 3 stops over exposed to 1 shop underexposed. Within this range you should be able to get good prints.

What concerns me more is that the overexposure seems erratic not appearing in every frame. This would suggest a problem the camera. I would first try to borrow a light meter and a 18% gray card. With the camera set to manual exposure take a few exposures metering carefully on the gray card. Then on the same roll with the camera set on auto take a second set. Use the same scenes and setup for both sets of exposures. If the two sets of negatives are very different then there is something wrong with the camera.

Another simpler test would be to use the "sunny 16 rule." Since the Hexar only goes up to 1/250 sec use a film with an ISO of 100 to 125. Again using manual mode, set the aperture at f/16 and the speed to 1/125 sec. Then take several pictures of sunnily lit scenes. Develop the film according to your developers instructions. The negatives should be exposed properly.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

It may well be true what you're saying about setting the lens to maximum aperture, but that runs counter to normal practice for every other camera I've ever seen that has an auto-exposure feature. Normally, you set the lens to minimum aperture, and the camera will adjust to whatever it needs. If you have the lens set at something other than minimum, it will not stop down past the aperture you've set, and so it can run out of faster shutter speeds to compensate and yield an overexposed negative. IF this is the case, leaving the lens set at f2 would certainly explain the overexposed film, as would the 1/250th maximum shutter speed. Using Sunny 16 as a guide rule, if you're shooting 400 speed film, in full daylight you should be getting f16 @ 1/400th second as proper exposure. This is already beyond the capability of your camera. So first, I would try switching to ISO 100 film, and see if that alleviates your random overexposures. Second, I'd re-read the instruction manual (or find one if you don't have one- there's a great source for them online http://www.butkus.org/chinon/ ) and verify the program exposure mode works the way you've described. Try shooting a roll with the lens set to minimum aperture, not maximum, and see what that does.

 

[railwayman3]

+1

Like any other craft, doing it well takes some practice and experience. Assuming you can rule out equipment problems/failures, keep going and don't give up so fast. It can take some time. Who ever said making great negatives and prints is supposed to be the easiest thing anyway?

Very true. An old friend of mine who was an experienced semi-pro photographer told me that, for high quality work, he was only satisfied with about one-in-ten of the negs he took.

It's not an easy craft, but just occasionally you get a picture that says "WOW", then it's all worthwhile.

 

[h.v.]

hi h.v.

i wish i had such good advice when i started out ..
one thing you might consider doing is getting a 100 foot long roll of film
and roll your own film cassettes. you won't save much $$ BUT you will be able
to shoot shorter rolls of film, maybe 12 exposures, like real estate agents used to shoot
and get the bugs out of the system. PLUS you will have more experience by the end of it all
spooling your film, and processing rolls

older cameras always need to be cla'd you and your camera will be much happier once you get it back to tip top shape.
i hate to suggest this, but one thing you might consider is a totally manual camera like a k1000 ( or similar )
so you can set the asa, set the shutter speed and set the focus yourself without worrying that the
camera's computer is on the blink. i got mine in 1981 and to be honest i would rather use it than
the more fancy 35mm cameras i have, its solid and dependable ...

Heh, a K1000 isn't the best thing for street photography . I've been trying to move on and try different cameras from SLRs (which i've gotten bored of and don't find very good for street photography). I'm also more comfortable with AF, right now, for my main camera. I wouldnt mind a manual SLR sometime soon though, but I'd probably go for Nikon or Konica .

The thing is that the Hexar isn't even that old. It would've been made between 1997 and the early 00s (it's the silver model). I know old cameras need repairs, but I wouldn't consider this camera that old. I just wouldn't have expected it. On the other hand, my Yashica, which I don't think got a CLA or anything before I bought it, works fine. My 1992 F90 works fine too.

The only two negatives that seem very dark are #19 and #20 in trhe lower right hand corner. Medium and fast speed films have a latitude of from 3 stops over exposed to 1 shop underexposed. Within this range you should be able to get good prints.

What concerns me more is that the overexposure seems erratic not appearing in every frame. This would suggest a problem the camera. I would first try to borrow a light meter and a 18% gray card. With the camera set to manual exposure take a few exposures metering carefully on the gray card. Then on the same roll with the camera set on auto take a second set. Use the same scenes and setup for both sets of exposures. If the two sets of negatives are very different then there is something wrong with the camera.

Another simpler test would be to use the "sunny 16 rule." Since the Hexar only goes up to 1/250 sec use a film with an ISO of 100 to 125. Again using manual mode, set the aperture at f/16 and the speed to 1/125 sec. Then take several pictures of sunnily lit scenes. Develop the film according to your developers instructions. The negatives should be exposed properly.

In theory on most other cameras, this would be great. But manual exposure is very unorthodox and painful to use on the Hexar. It wasn't built for it. It was built for it's Programmed mode (which acts more like Aperture priority) and it does a really good job with that.

It may well be true what you're saying about setting the lens to maximum aperture, but that runs counter to normal practice for every other camera I've ever seen that has an auto-exposure feature. Normally, you set the lens to minimum aperture, and the camera will adjust to whatever it needs. If you have the lens set at something other than minimum, it will not stop down past the aperture you've set, and so it can run out of faster shutter speeds to compensate and yield an overexposed negative. IF this is the case, leaving the lens set at f2 would certainly explain the overexposed film, as would the 1/250th maximum shutter speed. Using Sunny 16 as a guide rule, if you're shooting 400 speed film, in full daylight you should be getting f16 @ 1/400th second as proper exposure. This is already beyond the capability of your camera. So first, I would try switching to ISO 100 film, and see if that alleviates your random overexposures. Second, I'd re-read the instruction manual (or find one if you don't have one- there's a great source for them online http://www.butkus.org/chinon/ ) and verify the program exposure mode works the way you've described. Try shooting a roll with the lens set to minimum aperture, not maximum, and see what that does.

Yeah, I know it runs counter to most cameras, but that is how the Konica Hexar works. I've seen it with my own two eyes and have read about it. In extremely bright sunlight, it's probably going to be at f/22 and 1/250th with 400 ISO film, even though the aperture dial is set to f/2. Basically, leaving it at f/2 ensures that I get the highest shutter speed available, because there isn't really a shutter priority mode. I can try the thing at the end. So many different things to try out, thanks guys.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Camera is over exposing. There is no way part of roll can be correct, and part not from processing in a film tank.

 

[TheToadMen]

The only thing I can think of is there is an Olympus Stylus Epic (Mju I believe outside of North America) that I can get my hands on for $30. I've heard it's good for street photography, though I don't know how loud it is. Maybe I can snatch that up while I figure out the Hexar. I was thinking of getting it anyways for stuff through windows, as the Hexar doesn't really focus through windows well 95% of the time.

Hi,
If you mean this camera: http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Olympus_mju_II then I can recommend it.
I bought a Mju II in 2003(?) and used it often. It has a very good light meter and I got excellent exposed B&W negatives.
It is easy to handle and reasonably quiet, although you can hear the film advancing after the shot.
I used it several months to take a picture everyday: hand held point & shoot (not using the view finder).
It's a small camera (will fit in any pocket) so I often take it with me if I don't want to carry around a camera(bag).
The 35 mm lens is very good for street photography, especially since the looks and size of this small camera aren't taken that seriously by any target (as they would with a large "professional" camera).
You'll enjoy it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The camera may need a CLA [Clean, Lubricate & Adjust].

 

[wblynch]

I have a thought that the problem with your Hexar is the exposure compensation switch.

For 20 years that switch was probably never moved and sat on +0.

Over time the contact surfaces of those switches build up a hazy coating. This means when you moved it to -.3 or -.7 you lost contact and the camera didn't know what it was supposed to do. Therefore you got massively over-exposed frames.

The easiest solution is to leave the selector at +0. Next you can clean it off a bit by moving the selector all the way back and forth about 30 or 40 times. Of course the best is to have the switch opened and electrical contact cleaner applied.

Try another roll and make note of which frames were set at +0 and which were offset. This may prove the theory.

 

[wblynch]

By the way, the Olympus MJU-I and MJU-II are great cameras. I have never missed a shot with one.

The auto flash can be annoying and you have to disable it each time you open the camera. I disable the flash and then leave the camera open for the day.

But for street you might really like an Olympus XA or XA2. They are nearly silent but do have a ratchety sound from the manual film advance wheel.

All of these are fitted with 35mm lenses so you have to like that fov.

 

[h.v.]

Okay. Sorry about the delayed response. I did go ahead with some (all?) of the tests recommended here, but never checked back in. It's just been a crazy couple of weeks for me.

Before I get into things - Olympus. So the camera listing is for an "Olympus Stylus Camera"...I'm guessing this is the original Mju, then, right? "You hear the film advance" how loud is it? I'm figuring for $30, it might be nice just to try out for fun. Plus it can focus through windows, which the Hexar can't (well it can, but it's a guessing game...sometimes yeah, sometimes no). Yeah, I like 35mm focal length. The XA/2 I've looked at previously, but I know the XA at least is a rangefinder, which I'm not in the market for right now. If something popped up locally, I might snatch it, but I'm not going to go out of my way for one like I did the Hexar.

Ok, with that out of the way...

I did the test with the camera back opened, trying different lighting to see if the aperture adjusted properly. Seemed ok. But I may have missed something with that, I'll re-read that tip. I also looked close (initially with magnifying glass, but using my own eyes worked better) to see any oil on the aperture blades - nothing. The only thing was some scratch marks, presumably from the blades sliding across each other for years. I did an on-film test of a low f stop and a high f stop to see if the camera compensated correctly. But I haven't been able to process that film yet, I'm hoping to do that tonight, if not, tomorrow. I'll post the results.

With that, my only thought is what someone earlier said - I could've just blocked the meter reader on the front of the camera. I checked how I normally hold the camera, and I wouldn't block it. But it isn't a stretch to assume a finger moved in front of it without my noticing whilst shooting.

That's a good point about the exposure comp dial. It probably never was really bothered with. I can definitely move the dial around to loosen it up and make sure the contacts are working. What is meant by "electrical contact cleaner" and having the switch (what switch) opened?

 

[wblynch]

Electric contact cleaner is typically a spray chemical. You would have to figure out how to get the inner switch contacts exposed in order to direct some cleaner in there.

Of course you want to avoid getting the cleaning solution where it doesn't belong.

 

[h.v.]

Are you guys absolutely sure this couldn't have been processing error? I just processed some HP5 and the same thing happened - only now it was with a roll shot on my Nikon F90. The frames look very dark, just like the ones on Page 1 with the Hexar, so I'm guessing they'll be nice and bright.

I'll have to scan tomorrow after it's done drying to investigate further, maybe that scene in particular was bright. But based on the fact that it was semi-indoors and from what I can surmise from the actual negs, it is no different from the correctly exposed frames, I'm guessing it is an exposure issue.

I also shoot manual exposure on all cameras but the Hexar, so in this case it may have been me forgetting about the meter. Again, will have to look at the positives on the screen in order to know for sure. But in the meantime, I just want to know if there's any way it could've been processing error?

 

[Fixcinater]

Apologies if this has been covered already, but is your film fresh/known good? I've just developed some rolls of 120 format that are *very* expired and the frames towards the outside of the roll as it has sat unexposed all these years are dark/fogged to the point of being impossible to print.

Also, I have a Stylus Epic (same as Mju 2) and the film advance is fairly loud. Not as loud as a motor drive SLR but I couldn't take a shot on the street without someone nearby hearing it. Manual advance, leaf-shutter rangefinder or scale focus viewfinder cam might be your best bet for the street work. I have an Olympus 35 EC 2 that winds on like a disposable/re-usable plastic camera.

 

[AgX]

Electric contact cleaner is typically a spray chemical. You would have to figure out how to get the inner switch contacts exposed in order to direct some cleaner in there.

Of course you want to avoid getting the cleaning solution where it doesn't belong.

I apply contact cleaner in all critical cases only by size1 brush.

 

[h.v.]

Apologies if this has been covered already, but is your film fresh/known good? I've just developed some rolls of 120 format that are *very* expired and the frames towards the outside of the roll as it has sat unexposed all these years are dark/fogged to the point of being impossible to print.

Also, I have a Stylus Epic (same as Mju 2) and the film advance is fairly loud. Not as loud as a motor drive SLR but I couldn't take a shot on the street without someone nearby hearing it. Manual advance, leaf-shutter rangefinder or scale focus viewfinder cam might be your best bet for the street work. I have an Olympus 35 EC 2 that winds on like a disposable/re-usable plastic camera.

Yep, my film is fresh. I've shot expired film only a handful of times, mostly due to store or my own error. I've only once outright chosen to shoot expired film. Though I do have a roll of June 2012 expired SFX 200 that I still need to use. The HP5 I've been using expires sometime in 2015.

I already have two leaf shutter cameras that are very quiet - the Hexar and Yashica-A. They're not rangefinders, but they aren't the only tools for street photography. The Hexar is a wonderful street camera. I had some film from after the incident in the OP shot with the Hexar (HP5, Portra, Acros) and it's all come out fine. I'm really thinking my hand slipped and blocked the meter sensor on the front of the camera. I don't want to spend on a CLA unless I know that it will help. And so far I don't know for sure, it seems a bit like an isolated incident. But I'm leary of it occurring again (like it just did, but with a different camera this time).