Hybrid workflow for 35 mm color negative film

Andreas Thaler

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Vienna is my almost daily photo motif.


I would be interested to know how you process your 35 mm color negatives hybrid.

My workflow looks like this:
  • Exposing Kodak color negative films with the Nikon F4E and various AF Nikkor lenses. Imprinting the shooting date on the gaps between the images with the Nikon MF-23 Multi Control Back.
  • Developing the films in the C-41 color negative process by Bellini with the Filmomat processor.



Filmomat in action

  • VueScan: Scanning preview images for selection and archiving in low pixel count with two Super Nikon Coolscan 5000 ED.
  • VueScan: Scanning selected pictures in high pixel count as RAW DNG.
  • Converting with Negative Lab Pro as 16 Bit TIF files.
  • Optimization in Photoshop: cropping, global tonal correction, partial editing with adjustment layers and masks, further corrections as required, retouching, slight sharpening, output as 16 bit TIF masterfiles without layers.
  • Downsizing of files depending on use (for viewing on monitor or printing).
  • Archiving all images with consecutive numbering and entry of metadata (film, title, development, lens, camera). Viewing with Adobe Bridge.
  • Triple backup of files.

Kit Color Negative Film C41- RA Process - Monopart Developer - Bellini Foto

This kit contains products to make 1 litre of Developer – 1 litre of Bleach-RA – 1 litre of Fixer RA and 10 litres of Stabilizer. It is made for the C41 negative film process at 38°C (C41-RA Rapid Access process). The capacity of this kit is 16 negative films (35 mm) of 24 exp.
www.bellinifoto.it

Filmomat

The automatic film processor for 35mm, 120, 4x5", 5x7", Super-8 and 16mm.
www.filmomat.eu

Negative Lab Pro

A brilliant Lightroom plugin for color negativ film conversion. All-Raw, non-destructive workflow. Download a FREE trial now.
www.negativelabpro.com




The mighty Nikon F4E, for me one of the most impressive SLRs ever built.


This workflow is particularly dictated by the shelf life of the C-41 process chemicals, which only have a certain lifetime. This is why I try to be out and about with my camera every day, regularly developing, scanning, processing and archiving.




Nikon MF-23 Multi Control Back for imprinting data and automatically controlling the Nikon F4.


Before that, I used Canon fullframe DSLRs for a long time, but I got bored of working exclusively on the PC.

The Nikon F4E with 8 AA batteries and the associated AF lenses, especially the first generation, is heavy and therefore an ideal fitness device for my city walks


Special thanks to @MattKing for pointing out that there are other forums on PHOTRIO than the repair forum
 
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koraks

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Andreas Thaler said:
the shelf life of the C-41 process chemicals, which only have a certain lifetime
Click to expand...

For some reason, this keeps perpetuating even though it's not necessarily true. I keep my (Fuji) C41 developer around for a year, easily - it always runs out long before it goes bad.
I do use the developer one shot. I store the working strength or twice working strength developer in glass bottles with no air on top. Re-using the developer is an invitation to process variation.

I've posted about my scanning and color correction approach here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/doing-color-negative-inversions-manually.210239/

Most of the time when shooting 35mm I use Vision3 film instead of C41 film. I develop it in ECN2 developer.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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koraks said:
For some reason, this keeps perpetuating even though it's not necessarily true. I keep my (Fuji) C41 developer around for a year, easily - it always runs out long before it goes bad.
Click to expand...

I previously worked with the Colortec C-41 set from Tetenal, a two-bath process that is no longer available. The diluted chemicals lasted a very long time.

The diluted developer in Bellini's process is different and I was amazed when I hung two exposed but otherwise empty films up to dry

Otherwise, I am very happy with the switch to Bellini's three-bath process and have simply adapted my workflow. Bellini‘s customer service is excellent.

The Filmomat and its built-in impeller as part of the pump also appreciate regular movement, as does its user.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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I still have two cans of Tetenal Protectan, which is supposed to be butane and displaces oxygen in opened chemical bottles. This extends the shelf life.

With one set of Bellini I develop twelve 35 mm films and therefore do not exhaust the yield.

The results are perfect.
 

koraks

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As far as I can tell the Bellini developer should perform similarly to the Fuji stuff. Both (and many others) rely on hydroxylamine sulfate to keep them alive. Rapid deterioration of the developer is likely due to adverse storage conditions. This can include relying on something like protectan or butane instead of more effective ways of preventing oxidization. Of course, using fresh developer is a safe bet. We all have our ways.

Andreas Thaler said:
With one set of Bellini I develop twelve 35 mm films and therefore do not exhaust the yield.
Click to expand...

Consecutive use of the same volume of developer will result in a shift of color balance, density etc. Most people don't notice this and appear to be fine with it.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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koraks said:
Consecutive use of the same volume of developer will result in a shift of color balance, density etc. Most people don't notice this and appear to be fine with it.
Click to expand...

I use the Bellini set for 1 liter in two 500 ml portions.

I probably have color shifts in my Kodak Porta 800, which has been in the fridge for years.

But since there is no reliable reference for processing color negative film and there is to me no known application of color management for color negative film (unlike slide film), I am taking artistic license

It is important to me that I can reliably filter out color casts without using test charts.

Negativ Lab Pro is a great joy here, it saves a lot of work in Photoshop.

I also use PTLens as a plug-in, which contains correction profiles for a number of older lenses to eliminate lens distortion.

I contributed scanned test images for some Nikon and Canon MF lenses, which the author Tom Niemann ultimately accepted

PTLens may still be found on the web, but Tom unfortunately no longer sells it.

ePaperPress

Articles on computer science including lex & yacc and sorting/searching algorithms. Articles on photography and monitor calibration.
www.epaperpress.com
 
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Andreas Thaler

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koraks said:
Rapid deterioration of the developer is likely due to adverse storage conditions. This can include relying on something like protectan or butane instead of more effective ways of preventing oxidization.
Click to expand...

These are common methods.

What do you use?
 

koraks

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Andreas Thaler said:
What do you use?
Click to expand...

See #2:
koraks said:
I store the working strength or twice working strength developer in glass bottles with no air on top.
Click to expand...
I've also given hints about using color chemistry here: https://tinker.koraks.nl/photograph...ta-using-color-c41-and-ra4-chemistry-at-home/

If you want to pursue the topic of working with color chemistry, maybe we should find/use a different place for that. It seems you started this thread to exchange ways of doing hybrid color negative photography; I feel that a more in-depth discussion of how to preserve developer etc. may dive too deeply into one particular detail of the workflow. Moreover, so much has been said about it already on this forum that it would be a bit redundant, perhaps.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Thanks!

It's not about chemical details, but a practical workflow, and thankfully it adapts to individual circumstances to a large extent.

But C-41 is too rigid for discussions, things get more lively with black and white
 
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Andreas Thaler

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What I am particularly interested in is whether anyone still uses film scanners or is taking photos with a digital camera standard?
 
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Andreas Thaler

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I run my two Coolscans in parallel, they are robust and I hope they stay in good shape for a long time. I don't know what could reasonably replace them. They are fast, deliver perfect quality, filter out dust inclusions and are easy to use with VueScan.
 

moggi1964

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I use Vuescan and a Coolscan V for scanning 35mm.

I use an Epson Perfection 3200 for 4x5 and half plate and a V500 for 120.

If there are any negatives that I feel would benefit from a higher resolution scan then I'll take it to my local film lab. Haven't shot one of those yet

I'm about to start using a Jobo CPE2 for film and maybe sheet processing. Once I feel comfortable using it I'll have a go at C41 at home.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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I could save myself the trouble of developing the film, it's standard work, my photo lab with a Noritsu processor does it faster and with the same quality.

But it's part of the hybrid workflow, I don't want to do without it as long as I'm fit enough to do it myself regularly.
 

blee1996

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When I'm lazy, I use the scanner software to directly get C41 scans. But when I need quality and consistency, I find it better to scan as slides and invert in Negative Labs Pro.

My hybrid workflow is very similar to OP's, except I don't have the fancy Filmomat processor. My processor is my hands.
 

Sirius Glass

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I agree with minor changes in the wording. I enjoy the film process in a way that I do not get a similar enjoyment in digital workflow. For me digital workflow is somewhat similar to digital workflow for me: photograph and cull the results.
 

brbo

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Andreas Thaler said:
The exposed film was blank, no images visible and no codes on the edge. There was no development. The developer was obviously oxidized.
Click to expand...

Might have been something else... I haven't used Bellini C-41, but I did use their ECN-2 kit and even though ECN-2 is less robust than C-41 I can't image how many rolls or how much time it would take to bring it down to zero activity.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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brbo said:
Might have been something else... I haven't used Bellini C-41, but I did use their ECN-2 kit and even though ECN-2 is less robust than C-41 I can't image how many rolls or how much time it would take to bring it down to zero activity.
Click to expand...

If the film after processing doesn't show any pictures but the codes and numbers on the edge, then the camera is the problem.

If nothing is visible, it can only be the development process or the film. I rule out the latter after 40 years of processing my own films.

The development process of course includes all user errors and issues with the equipment. So the developer is only one of several factors; anything is possible.

In any case, I had significantly exceeded the shelf life of the chemicals specified by the manufacturer.

It doesn't matter, I'm glad that I was able to find a replacement for Tetenal in Bellini, which I can scale from 1000 ml standard dilution to the 500 ml required for the Filmomat.

This process fits into our household, including the collection containers for used chemicals.
 
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koraks

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You could scan as positive without any adjustments, then work out a curve adjustment that inverts the colors and balances them for a given film stock. You can then apply that same adjustment batch-wise to all scans of the same type of negative film.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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The current version of VueScan gives me „nice“ scans without any further processing, which can definitely be used, e.g. as an index in the archive.
 

runswithsizzers

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I have not used very much color negative film recently, perhaps less than a dozen rolls since I started shooting film again in 2017. But my process is:
- Expose film in one of my 35mm SLR cameras (Pentax/Konica) using the camera's built in meter.
- Have the film processed at a commercial lab.
- Copy the negatives with a 16MP Fuji mirrorless camera (APS-C) using a Rodenstock APO-Rodagon D 75mm f/4.0 lens on a bellows. Negative holder and light source are Skier Copybox.
- Open the RAW files in Adobe Lightroom Classic (v13.0.2). After initial crop, invert the negatives to positive using the Negative Lab Pro plug-in for Lightroom (v3.0.2).
- Add captions, keywords, etc. Negative Lab Pro also allows me to edit the metadata, so the date taken, aperture, shutter speed are for the analog capture rather than for the digital camera. And NLP can also store metadata about which developer used, time & temp, etc.
- Export the RAW files from Lightroom as JPEG/TIF files to write the metadata to the file and reimport back into Lightroom. This makes the color positive act "normal" in Lightroom. Otherwise, if trying to edit the converted RAW files in Lightroom, many of Lightroom's tools work in unexpected ways.
- Do final editing of the positive in Lightroom Classic.

I can't say I am completely satisfied with the <results> which is why I mostly stick with b&w for my film cameras. When I want color, I usually shoot digital -- although I would shoot more slide film if it wasn't so expensive.
 
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