Huge price drop by Zeiss Ikon

[Roger Hicks]

I wonder if the affordabiility of Zeiss optics has helped boost Leica body sales too? The bodies might be expensive but pale into insignificance when compared to the set of lenses! Zeiss optics seemed in so many ways to exploit a middle ground that nither CV nor Leica had quite managed to deal with.

Dear Tom,

Hard to tell. When you look at Leica (and German-built Zeiss) lenses, you soon see where the money goes: ground aspheric surfaces (not hybrid), hand-lapped focusing mounts, every unit quality controlled, etc. I'll let you know in a few years if I manage to buy any Zeiss lenses and give them serious long-term testing -- as I have tested Leica lenses over the decades!

Cheers,

Roger

 

[MattKing]

I'm working from vague memory here, but I seem to recall from my distant past when I worked in camera stores where both Leica and Minolta lenses (for SLRs) were sold, that the story was that the guts of a number of zoom lenses were identical between the two brands, except for three critical issues:

1) the quality control specifications - Leicas were much more narrow;
2) the badging; and
3) the means with which the elements of each lens were affixed.

The latter criteria was similar, but not identical. Naturally, the Leica lenses had parts that were more precise, but only because they were made more precise in more labour intensive ways.

I bring this up to point out that it is probably possible to have two lenses manufactured with what appears to be the same design, using similar qualities of materials but still have two different results. This is because certain choices can be made - certain more labour intensive assembly procedures and narrower tolerances may be chosen which result, on a statistical probability of higher quality results. In addition, certain higher quality ancillary materials may be chosen that result in better ergonomics, and possibly longer life without adjustment or repair. Finally, and most importantly, if narrow tolerances are required, fewer lenses near or outside those tolerances make there way into the marketplace.

If one was able to to compare a large number of Leica and Minolta SLR lenses of that era of identical focal length range, it is likely that there would be some Minolta badged zoom lenses from that era that would be of higher optical quality than other Leica lenses of the same focal lengths. All things otherwise being equal, however, there would statistically be more Leica lenses that would surpass the Minolta versions, even if only marginally.

Matt

 

[Roger Hicks]

All things otherwise being equal, however, there would statistically be more Leica lenses that would surpass the Minolta versions, even if only marginally.

Dear Matt,

You are quite right, but the statistics would be fairly compelling. Basically, every single Leica lens is checked repeatedly during manufacture, as compared with the batch (= statistical) quality control carried out by most manufacturers.

While this by no means excludes error on Leica's part, it does mean that the chance of a 'lemon' getting through is much reduced, and it also means that it is likely to be much closer to delivering the best possible results from that design, so taking the Minolta example, the likelihood of a better Minolta lens was vanishingly small. The best might well be as good, but they would be very unlikely indeed to be detectably better.

Of course, there is also the argument that increased automation reduces the chance of human error, and that with a process as labour-intensive as hand-building lenses, there's plenty of scope for error. But I have visited Solms and Oberkochen, and I haven't been to Cosina or Minolta, so I can't speak for the latter two.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Tom Stanworth]

I would love some German Zeiss lenses, but they are well out of my reach. In fact I am prob going to sell one of my two Leica lenses to make room for other kit even without really using it (part of a kit)! The Cosina Zeiss lenses that I have (25,35,50 -ZM) are so wonderful I really (personally) dont need any more performance. Still, it is the only example of the pinnacle of engineering that I have and so am tempted to keep it. Faced with being able to convert it into a load of LF gear however, I am leaning towards selling it (50 Asph 1.4 Lux LHSA BP). I just think my 50 planar is good enough for me! I change my mind every five seconds so who knows. The Cosina Seiss lenses might be lesser than their German Zeiss cousins, but they are still darned good, although nobody really knows how they will stand the test of time and repeated real world use.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Well, if the old Yashica/Contax Zeiss glass is anything to compare with, they'll hold up admirably. The only thing that was iffy with those lenses were the zooms - I had one of the 35-70 zooms on loan from Contax that the lensmount fell off, and my personal 35-70 zoom's mount was getting wobbly when I sold it. Since none of the CV/Zeiss lenses are zooms, this should never be an issue.

 

[Mike Kovacs]

Not to mention the quality of the Contax G glass.

 

[Donald Boyd]

Some Zeiss is sharp and cheaper than Leica.