I deleted a post, but didn't finish reasoning, in fact it to was reasoning in the works, so it is still makes no sense as posted, but there was nothing of value in what was deleted.
How well does Ferrania ORTO do in the darkroom ?
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Why would it?
maybe you misinterpret what’s written in Italian?
OP
OP
...Hassasin..
OP
OP
...aha....yes that is a good thing (no discontinued P30). !
Then the Italian dealer will have made a mistake - this probably meant that the P30 is just sold out for him.
It just means it is intermittently available only
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
......where it's not too easy for you Canadians to comute between Vancouver and Seatle....?.....but now you have a King again...
...
seriously : you don't need to be gifted to imagine that the first
deliveries might still take place within the planned times but then there could be a break because the film could be sold out in the meantime!
King? Elvis? Was he sighted up here again?
OP
OP
...grande perché poi andrà di nuovo tutto bene Tomro...
...perché mi ero davvero già chiesto come si potesse capirlo !
perché "discontinuo" in realtà significa (per dirla semplicemente). = la musika è finita....
...!....a la fine va sempre tutto bene amico mio!
OP
OP
....as a general explanation : in the film business, : "intermittently available only" indicates often the end or
rater the beginning of the end = out of production!
Wich is (fortunately not) means here.
rater the beginning of the end = out of production!
Wich is (fortunately not) means here.
MattKing
Moderator
......where it's not too easy for you Canadians to comute between Vancouver and Seatle....
seriously : you don't need to be gifted to imagine that the first
deliveries might still take place within the planned times but then there could be a break because the film could be sold out in the meantime!
Seattle is an expensive and time consuming day outing from here.
Fun for other reasons, but not a solution for regularly accessing photographic materials.
Developing isn't determined by the orthochromatic nature of the film. Any lab should be able to process this film, like many labs process other orthochromatic films.
OP
OP
Righty righty Scott Micciche - but that's not the point.
There is no doubt about it. But what about the quality you
can expect from a lab these days?
I have shot some APX 100 for example. A fairly ordinary film
that produces decent results with almost all developers.
Some real experts may work out undreamed-of properties from this emulsion with their special soup.
Personaly, I had no problem sending one of these films to the lab.
APX100 is a cheap film. But a film at about 12.50 like Orto developed with a bog-standard lab developer?
What about this developer btw :
it would not be a good combination?
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OP
OP
Attention please ! This is NO lab bashing, it is the oposite.
It is only intended to show what extraordinarily good results you can get in your own darkroom if you understand something about it.
Perhaps or even defenitely this isn't the best option with Neofin but it is the best developer for following example.
What would happen in case you would order a lab for developing Ferrania Orto in neofin blue?
Would the lab then reprocess it's developing tank with 475 vials of Neofin?....!
What is the task of a lab developer?
A lab developer hast to work with all kind of films (as you said)
What is the conclusion ? Is the resulting quality with each film extraorinarily good ?
No, but it is a satisfactory quality with each film!
So is "satisfactory" good enough ????
If this is not good enough - then you have to use your own lab: Your darkroom is waiting ...
There is a good statement about a comparison from Ken Rockwell :
" If you compare digital with film, you allways compare digitized
film with digital "
I would like to state : If you compare films developed in bad
labs, you allways compare the different performance of the labs ! . .... ( ....and not the characteristics of the films ...
)
It is only intended to show what extraordinarily good results you can get in your own darkroom if you understand something about it.
Perhaps or even defenitely this isn't the best option with Neofin but it is the best developer for following example.
What would happen in case you would order a lab for developing Ferrania Orto in neofin blue?
Would the lab then reprocess it's developing tank with 475 vials of Neofin?..
..!What is the task of a lab developer?
A lab developer hast to work with all kind of films (as you said)
What is the conclusion ? Is the resulting quality with each film extraorinarily good ?
No, but it is a satisfactory quality with each film!
So is "satisfactory" good enough ????
If this is not good enough - then you have to use your own lab: Your darkroom is waiting ...
There is a good statement about a comparison from Ken Rockwell :
" If you compare digital with film, you allways compare digitized
film with digital "
I would like to state : If you compare films developed in bad
labs, you allways compare the different performance of the labs ! . .... ( ....and not the characteristics of the films ...
)
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OP
OP
That means @ Scott Micciche : of course you can get excellent results from a professionel lab today.
But this is due to the fact that certain films e.g. Ilford hp5,
harmonize very well with standard developers from development machines.
In other cases you will have to resort to a special development, wich means you order a can development in the laboratory !
...............?
In practice this means that e.g. the trainee is assigned to
develope the can. In a good lab that works up to date, idealy you would hand in the Orto (...If you get the film soon) for development - And would then be asked wich of the developers recommended by Ferrania with data you would like to have done the development with the can !
Perfect !
......any idea how much something like this costs
these days..
!
But this is due to the fact that certain films e.g. Ilford hp5,
harmonize very well with standard developers from development machines.
In other cases you will have to resort to a special development, wich means you order a can development in the laboratory !
...............?In practice this means that e.g. the trainee is assigned to
develope the can. In a good lab that works up to date, idealy you would hand in the Orto (...If you get the film soon
) for development - And would then be asked wich of the developers recommended by Ferrania with data you would like to have done the development with the can !Perfect !
......any idea how much something like this costs
these days..
!
Thanks for the clarification.
Bog standard labs usually run D76/ID11 or Xtol or Ilfotec DD in machine processing.
If the lab is using a replenished hand line it would also be similar to the above.
If the lab is using small tank and spirals/one shot system, then maybe they can offer a selection of developers as a custom/boutique offering.
Most labs will try their best to offer high quality processing, be it B&W, C41 or E6 as it is their livelihood.
Remember, what we see from labs isn't always the development, but the horrific scanning output. Here is a "straight out of the scanner" image from Ferrania's Orto, EI 50 developed in a simple Barry Thornton Two-bath. The Pakon F135 is known for its contrasty character and can produce over-the-top contrast for many films far worse than scans from many online shops, yet with the Orto, it produces a very nice image with a full tonal range. This film is also very sharp, but that does have a lot to do with the scanner. A few of these I will be printing to 5x7 as soon as the weather warms up a bit.
Attachments
Scott, how different from this might the same shot have been with the same scanner using P30?
Thanks
pentaxuser
I've never gotten the P30 through the Pakon in its default jpeg output, no matter if I shoot at EI 32 of 80. For whatever reason, the software might have trouble finding the black point or white point. I usually output the pakon as 16 bit raw and just do a log inversion using either imagemagick or Negative lab pro in gamma mode. The Orto, however, is much like HP5/FP4 and even better than Acros, which outputs incredible grays from the little F135.
Here is a P30 sample, EI 80, developed in Paranol-S 7 minutes 1:50 20C. Pakon on the right.
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Thanks Scott but while this may be the case for the F135 scanner, might this not be a quirk of this scanner. Other scanners may or may not handle P30 just as well as they do the new "Orto". Equally enlargers may handle both films equally
My concern is whether this is a real difference in the 2 films and we lack any real data from Ferrania on this
Can you say if your the Macbeth charts demonstrate this improved rendition of the greys. Certainly it would seem that both films look equal in terms of being genuinely Ortho in nature rather than the P30 being Orthopanchromatic and the new film being much more Ortho and yet having the ability to render the greys which are other colours in a more panchromatic way
pentaxuser
My concern is whether this is a real difference in the 2 films and we lack any real data from Ferrania on this
Can you say if your the Macbeth charts demonstrate this improved rendition of the greys. Certainly it would seem that both films look equal in terms of being genuinely Ortho in nature rather than the P30 being Orthopanchromatic and the new film being much more Ortho and yet having the ability to render the greys which are other colours in a more panchromatic way
pentaxuser
Yes, the F135 is unique, it has a lot of character, especially when it scans Kodak film. Results I see from various online labs, using the Fujitsu or Noritsu scanners are no better. I never found the P30 all that orthochromatic. I've captured lots of red and see plenty of gray tones from them. The fact that the Orto is digested nicely by the Pakon, tells me there is a difference in possibly the film base itself, making the scanner software perform better from white to black. Either way, it gets me to spend less time in front of a computer and I can insert the roll, walk away for 7 minutes and I have 36 nice jpgs look over to see which I want to make prints from.
Thanks it was just that your recent MacBeth picture on the new stuff gave a very similar look to the red square as did P30 to Greg Davis's red square in his film test of P30 and in a lot of shots posted on Photrio on that very long thread on P30 reds such as we see on traffic signs looked pretty black as did other red objects
However matters may be come clearer when more users have experience of the new stuff more and report their findings
pentaxuser
Macodirect in Germany expects the film Orto to be available on June 15, 2023
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
I pre-ordered Orto a month ago (from Film Photography Project, in the US), and at that time, I was told it'll be about a six week wait... Looks like it could be a longer wait then... 
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
Just received email from a shop in the US in regards to Orto...
"Please be aware that Film Ferrania has just informed us that shipping on their new 35mm BW
film ORTO to the United States has been delayed until end of June (or later)".
Bummmmmmerrrrrrrr...
"Please be aware that Film Ferrania has just informed us that shipping on their new 35mm BW
film ORTO to the United States has been delayed until end of June (or later)".
Bummmmmmerrrrrrrr...
On the other hand here in Italy I can find Ferrania ORTO available in large quantity... the grass on the other side is always greener...I wish I could fill a suitcase with Ferrania ORTO and fly to you!!!
It would certainly be a more profitable activity than my odd jobs (school caretaker, waiter, on-line trader, math private lesson...)
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
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