How do you meter with your meterless Leica?

[markbarendt]

I seem to recall that the instructions in the boxes indicated they were the settings when the time was between 10am and 2pm, when the light was basically flat and high in the sky. How do you estimate the light and apply the exposure setting at one hour before sunset? 45 minutes, 30 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, etc? There can be many stops difference during that period.

Did you have a look at the link John included?

 

[Knjy]

Guesswork. Some days I'm good and some days bad.

 

[Regular Rod]

Question goes for really any meterless camera. I use an app on my iPhone (Pocket Light Meter), but I am trying to train myself to use the "force within". You know, try to remember or guess what the reading would be. Not that good at it yet. What are others doing? A real meter? Please be specific as I still, after all these years am wishing to learn more what others do.

Exposure is so important that it seems folly to guess it, if a meter is available. Pentax Spotmeters are excellent tools but they are BIG! It's just something to put up with to be sure of good exposures...

RR

 

[omaha]

Its really a question of speed and therefore a question of subject matter.

If one is shooting a static subject in stable light, then using a meter is more practical.

But when shooting candid photos of people, particularly in an era where they are conditioned to auto-exposure, auto-focus rapid fire digital cameras, you may not have the time to take a reading. Or if you take the time, and your subjects are patient enough to let you, you'll end up with a stiff, posed result instead of the natural candid shot you were looking for.

 

[fotch]

I use a real meter, there are many choices, mine happen to Gossen Luna Pro's. Film is expensive and I may really want that picture and don't want to waste the opportunity with the wrong exposure. If I don't want to have a separate meter then I use a camera with a built in meter, likely a Nikon SLR.

 

[markbarendt]

Its really a question of speed and therefore a question of subject matter.

Most situations allow pre-metering or metering between subjects.

One can meter in the directions they are going to shoot.

 

[removed account4]

I seem to recall that the instructions in the boxes indicated they were the settings when the time was between 10am and 2pm, when the light was basically flat and high in the sky. How do you estimate the light and apply the exposure setting at one hour before sunset? 45 minutes, 30 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, etc? There can be many stops difference during that period.

hi alan

i don't worry about it.
film is forgiving ... besides, there is no such thing as a perfect exposure
anyone who believes in perfection, whether it is a film exposure
negative development, print development &c should
just realize before it is too late that might seem necessary, but in the end
it really doesn't matter. what matters is that you can expose the film well enough, develop it good enough
and print it well enough. no such thing as magic bullets, magic lenses, magic cameras
magic developers magic film or magic paper ...
some of the best photographs in the world were made without lightmeters, not sure why it is so important to have and use one all the time
instincts are a much better tool ...
( for me at least )

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Question goes for really any meterless camera. I use an app on my iPhone (Pocket Light Meter), but I am trying to train myself to use the "force within". You know, try to remember or guess what the reading would be. Not that good at it yet. What are others doing? A real meter? Please be specific as I still, after all these years am wishing to learn more what others do.

Same as all my other (I no longer own Leicas) meterless cameras, a Weston Master III and for low light a Gossen LunaSix. Being able to estimate exposure with useable accuracy is a valuable skill but is not a substitute for an accurate meter properly used.

 

[omaha]

Most situations allow pre-metering or metering between subjects.

One can meter in the directions they are going to shoot.

Not to be argumentative, but what if that is not known?

For example, I had occasion a week or so ago while out walking my dog to take a lovely photo of a pair of great grandparents out playing with their infant great granddaughter. The light was tricky: They were partially shaded by a tree, the sun was behind them, it was partially overcast. There would be no practical way to pre-meter for such conditions.

Time was a factor. The moment was just that...a moment (they were holding the baby up on a branch of a tree). I pulled my Agfa from my pocket, asked them if I could take their picture, made a quick assessment of the light (overcastish...backlight...shade...need some more exposure. Go to f/5 or so at 1/50 or so), rangefindered the distance, dialed it all in and took the shot (which came out lovely, I'm pleased to say).

Meters are wonderful, and I use mine whenever I can. But there is real value in being able to see the light and get a good exposure from "dead reckoning".

 

[BetterSense]

I stopped using meters a while ago.

Meterless with negative film is quite easy. Most film datasheets have recommendations that work fine. All those "difficult situations" people talk about never seem to be a problem for me in practice, for a simple reason: film is slow, and there is never enough light. The possibility of overexposing is usually just not there. In a great many situations, I'm simply exposing the film as much as I can, hoping to get ENOUGH exposure. If it's sunny, overcast, or shady, I already have my camera set. If I'm not sure about the light but I have to use 1/250 to stop the action and I have to use f/4 to get enough depth-of-field, then those are the setting I use. Exposure is a tool to use, not a goal to hit.

 

[omaha]

film is slow, and there is never enough light. The possibility of overexposing is usually just not there. In a great many situations, I'm simply exposing the film as much as I can, hoping to get ENOUGH exposure.

This.

It took me quite a few rolls since returning to film last year to figure this out, but this is where I ended up. I only shoot negative film, and I try to throw as much light at it as possible.

Years of shooting digital taught me precisely the wrong lesson here. For digital, too much exposure is a disaster (nothing is uglier than sensor clipping). For film, its seems all but impossible to get too much.

 

[Alan Klein]

hi alan

i don't worry about it.
film is forgiving ... besides, there is no such thing as a perfect exposure
anyone who believes in perfection, whether it is a film exposure
negative development, print development &c should
just realize before it is too late that might seem necessary, but in the end
it really doesn't matter. what matters is that you can expose the film well enough, develop it good enough
and print it well enough. no such thing as magic bullets, magic lenses, magic cameras
magic developers magic film or magic paper ...
some of the best photographs in the world were made without lightmeters, not sure why it is so important to have and use one all the time
instincts are a much better tool ...
( for me at least )

John: It works for you but not me. I usually shoot Velvia 50 chromes which is very unforgiving. I just started to play around with BW negative Tmax 100 so maybe it works with that kind of film. My short experience with it however was that I tended to underexposed even with my meter. Obviously I need to make adjustments. As far as perfection, I just want the film to be exposed properly. That isn't "magic" or "perfection" but just good technique.

 

[Terry Christian]

I usually just rely on Sunny-16 and my best judgement. Failing that, and for tricky situations, I use an iPhone metering app or my trusty Gossen Pilot.

 

[removed account4]

hi again alan

yep what works for one person won't work for another, that's for sure ...

i'd rather expose my negative films and chromes without ...
less stuff to carry around..
i also use 1 developer for film and prints
and water instead of stop bath ... simple works for me ..

 

[Xmas]

Not to be argumentative, but what if that is not known?

For example, I had occasion a week or so ago while out walking my dog to take a lovely photo of a pair of great grandparents out playing with their infant great granddaughter. The light was tricky: They were partially shaded by a tree, the sun was behind them, it was partially overcast. There would be no practical way to pre-meter for such conditions.

Time was a factor. The moment was just that...a moment (they were holding the baby up on a branch of a tree). I pulled my Agfa from my pocket, asked them if I could take their picture, made a quick assessment of the light (overcastish...backlight...shade...need some more exposure. Go to f/5 or so at 1/50 or so), rangefindered the distance, dialed it all in and took the shot (which came out lovely, I'm pleased to say).

Meters are wonderful, and I use mine whenever I can. But there is real value in being able to see the light and get a good exposure from "dead reckoning".

First rule is pre meter and set the camera up for the direction you are looking.
Second rule is shoot first fine tune 2nd if the subject is transient you might get a good shot
Third rule is to carry the camera in hand prefocused 1st pressure taken up.
When you pre meter you do it for both sides of street and facing both ways and memorize each and also memorize what you set the camera for. If you have dappled shade more to remember.
If you are chicken use a programmed camera with back light compensation.
If you use a wide range film and a low contrast developer you have four stops latitude unless you have strong sun.
Not often I get sun.
Today I've got a F2 with DE-1 & mirror locked up but Im still getting aggravation, Im metering with a Weston II, HP5+ dull overcast ocassionally sun - yesterday rain I needed a bilge pump in gbag.

 

[omaha]

Kids: "Come on, dad! Lets go! We'd like to get this walk started some time today!"

Me: "Just one more minute...I only have three scenarios left on my pre-walk-pre-meter checklist!"

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Kids: "Dad, where the %$@&* did our college money go??"

Dad: "I spent it on film for my 8x10, I had to buy so much because I was too %&@#$ macho to use a meter and wasted most of it"

 

[benjiboy]

First rule is pre meter and set the camera up for the direction you are looking.
Second rule is shoot first fine tune 2nd if the subject is transient you might get a good shot
Third rule is to carry the camera in hand prefocused 1st pressure taken up.
When you pre meter you do it for both sides of street and facing both ways and memorize each and also memorize what you set the camera for. If you have dappled shade more to remember.
If you are chicken use a programmed camera with back light compensation.
If you use a wide range film and a low contrast developer you have four stops latitude unless you have strong sun.
Not often I get sun.
Today I've got a F2 with DE-1 & mirror locked up but Im still getting aggravation, Im metering with a Weston II, HP5+ dull overcast ocassionally sun - yesterday rain I needed a bilge pump in gbag.

Do Calumet sell bilge pumps these days, with the recent torrential rain and flooding it would be great marketing opportunity for them

 

[removed account4]

Kids: "Dad, where the %$@&* did our college money go??"

Dad: "I spent it on film for my 8x10, I had to buy so much because I was too %&@#$ macho to use a meter and wasted most of it"

sounds familiar EvH, sort of like an 80s movie
CLIP CLIP CLIP

OTTO
Do you remember that you once told me
along time ago. Well not too long ago
but ummm. That you told me that you'd
give me a thousand dollars to go to
Europe if I finish school. Well you
know something? You were right. About
finishing school that's ah that's what
I'd like to do. But umm I want to know
if I could have the money first. Like
now. [You know I really love you Dad
I've always loved you. You too mom.
What do you say?

OTTO DAD
I don't have it anymore.

OTTO
What?]

OTTO MOM
You father gave all our extra money
to the Reverend's telethon, Otto.


EvH,
is next thing you are going to tell me is that people explode too

AGENT ROGERSZ
It happens sometimes. People just explode.
Natural causes.

thanks imsdb
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Repo-Man.html

 

[Chris Lange]

I stopped using meters a while ago.

Meterless with negative film is quite easy. Most film datasheets have recommendations that work fine. All those "difficult situations" people talk about never seem to be a problem for me in practice, for a simple reason: film is slow, and there is never enough light. The possibility of overexposing is usually just not there. In a great many situations, I'm simply exposing the film as much as I can, hoping to get ENOUGH exposure. If it's sunny, overcast, or shady, I already have my camera set. If I'm not sure about the light but I have to use 1/250 to stop the action and I have to use f/4 to get enough depth-of-field, then those are the setting I use. Exposure is a tool to use, not a goal to hit.

I never use a meter with my M2, and rarely ever with my Hasselblad. I eschewed meters for most of my shooting years ago, with the exception of my Nikons.

someone mentioned 1/60 @ 2.8 for a night time exposure earlier with 100 speed film, I would use 1/60 @ 2 with EI1600...maybe 1/125 with 3200.

I hate using 100 speed film because the granularity benefit, more often than not, is negated by the fact that it's essentially useless for me (handheld) in anything other than a well lit room or daylight, if I want to use anything more than 1/125 and 5.6.

 

[markbarendt]

Not to be argumentative, but what if that is not known?

There is value in being able to guess no doubt.

When I go for a walk though I'll meter for front lit, cross lit and back lit and set the camera for cross lit, then pocket the meter.

If the light changes I re-meter.

At any point I know the real settings I want, one or two clicks to the aperture or time ring and I'm ready regardless of the direction I need to shoot.

 

[Xmas]

Do Calumet sell bilge pumps these days, with the recent torrential rain and flooding it would be great marketing opportunity for them

You meant this evenings cats and dogs?

 

[DannL.]

I don't use roll-film now, but I still meter all of my exposures. I use GE PR-1 for just about everything.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Ask Fred.
http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I'll never understand this refusal to use a meter when one is available.
Like making parts in a machine shop and ignoring the presence of measuring instruments.
Just plain silly.