I was not one of his favorites. I was an anthropology major with a minor in photojournalism. My college did not have photography as art major and only offered photojournalism as a minor as my college (LaVern College) offered in a journalism major. I never understood why but LaVern had a grant to send a student to one of the Summer seminars. I was picked because I had a old exNavy Speed Graphic. The school did have a 5X7 portrait cameras that dated back the 20s which was too big for anyone to lug to MIT. When I showed up with my speed, equipped with a Kodak 127mm which not cover much movement Mr. White was not amused. He approve my of Weston Ranger 9 meter. I did learn a lot, how to test my film and developer comb, how to shoot a ring around and use a densitometer. I did get the hang of visualization, what White called previsalization but never really got the deeper level of his vision as photography as art.Paul,
I would follow if you started a thread where all you do is tell the stories about your seminar with Minor White.
I joke about getting this as a tattoo…. It’s Minor White’s mystic cycle of photographic communication.
Barring special circumstances, I place my shadows on zone IV. So I stop down one stop from what the meter says for the shadow area.Then what do you do with the shadow reading? Do you set the camera to match the meter reading, or do you stop down by some amount? And is your meter set to the film ISO or something else?
Barring special circumstances, I place my shadows on zone IV. So I stop down one stop from what the meter says for the shadow area.
I have calibrated my go-to film stocks and developer combos for printing at grade 2, and the developers I use tend to rob some film speed. So I rate FP4+ at 64 and HP5+ at 250. Meter is set to that calibrated speed, not box speed.
I have often seen recommendations to add one stop, or 2/3rds stop, to a palm reading. That is, isn't the palm of ones hand closer to Zone VI than Zone V??Look at your hand's palm in and against the scene you want to shoot and, keeping in mind you hand is about a 'V' on the the zone system scale, look for a similar value of light falling onto the scene, then guess the number of stops needed to get shadow detail to where you want it to lay.
Why would I do that?You might also try making some disks of smooth, white styrofoam plate bottoms, for placing into Series filter holders which you can pre-expose film frames at about 10 - 20% of your final exposure, making first the pre-exposure, removing the filter, which the lens exposed at infinity focusing, recocking the camera with the frame held in place for the double exposure.
We have all often heard the advice to "expose for the shadows" when shooting negative film. But I expect there may be some variation in the exact methods we use. Please include the following: Do you use box ISO or do you set your meter to some other EI? What kind of meter do you use? Where exactly do you aim the meter? After you take your meter reading, how do you set the camera?
My usual metering method is to take an incident reading following the instructions provided by Gossen or Sekonic - so I don't have much experience with metering for the shadows.
But if I wanted to meter for the shadows, I would do it something like this:
1. I usually set my meter to some EI slightly less than box speed: for most ISO 400 film from Kodak or Ilford, I would set my meter to EI 320 or 250. I usually develop in XTOL, which is said to be speed preserving.
2. I would choose something in my scene which I think should be in Zone 3 - say a shaded tree trunk that has some bark texture I want to preserve.
3. Using either my camera's built in meter (simple center weighted TTL), or one of my hand-held meters, I would take a reflected reading from the shaded tree trunk.
4. I would reduce the meter reading by two stops, and set the camera to that value.
I shoot 35mm film, so I don't mess with any kind of notes about contrast range or plus/minus developing - the whole roll unavoidably gets the same development.
It is Step 3 that I am particularly wondering about. I have heard some photographers would either take an incident reading in the shade - or take a reflected reading from a gray card in the same light (shade) as the zone 3 shadow. Pros and Cons?
I have often seen recommendations to add one stop, or 2/3rds stop, to a palm reading. That is, isn't the palm of ones hand closer to Zone VI than Zone V??
Why would I do that?
Yes,whatever you do,don't underexpose the shadows and always err on the side of over exposure
You might also try making some disks of smooth, white styrofoam plate bottoms, for placing into Series filter holders which you can pre-expose film frames at about 10 - 20% of your final exposure, making first the pre-exposure, removing the filter, which the lens exposed at infinity focusing, recocking the camera with the frame held in place for the double exposure.
The whole idea of basing your exposure on a shadow reading is to "place" the shadow where you want it by choosing the exposure that will render the desired detail and tonal relationships in that area. This can vary from situation to situation.Then what do you do with the shadow reading? Do you set the camera to match the meter reading, or do you stop down by some amount? And is your meter set to the film ISO or something else?
[...]
When I get a small-format camera with a built-in meter in hand, I meter entirely differently than I do when using sheet film and a hand-held meter. I simply use the exposure the meter suggests (after having tested to get an E.I. that gives me the shadow detail I want for normal scenes when I do that). With many cameras, this exposure is automatically set. This means that I'll get the shadow detail I need in every scene that doesn't fool the meter. Where the meter gets fooled is when the scene is very contrasty, especially if the meter is averaging all the values. In this case, the meter can choose a "middle value" to expose for that will severely underexpose the shadows. This is when to use exposure compensation and add an extra stop or two of exposure. You simply learn to recognize contrasty situations and add exposure. Note that for flat, low-contrast scenes you don't need to do anything. Yes, the shadows might be a bit overexposed if your meter is choosing a middle value, but that's no problem. Contrast is then expanded in the darkroom with paper contrast, etc.
Best,
Doremus
One reason I like the Canon T90 is that it has spot metering that allows the photographer to take up to 9 spot readings that the camera will integrate into a final exposure setting. So one can meter a highlight and then a shadow area, then add a mid-tone, then take another highlight or shadow reading to shift the final exposure a bit one way or another -- like adding more or less salt to your steak.Reading through this thread make me realize that there is a couple of different ways I think about using a meter.
One of those ways, and I think the way that the OP was asking about, is the way where we point the meter (or camera) at something, and then make use of the results to set the camera. That is the most common approach, and usually works fine. That approach leads to the questions about where to point the meter/camera and how to interpret the results. Those are good questions.
The other way is a bit more complex. You can use the meter to learn about your subject, and help you visualize how it might be rendered in a photographic print or projected slide or .... Also, you can use that information to consciously decide what result you would like, and how to achieve it. Decisions like high key, full range of tones, or low key results. Empty shadows or brilliant highlights.
So you take a shadow reading, and take a mid-tone reading, and take a highlight reading, and it tells you a lot about how those parts are likely to relate to each other in the negative (or transparency). If the subject has a high Subject Luminance Range ("SLR"), you may decide to make an exposure decision that favours shadows or mid-tones or highlights, accepting the fact that tones at one or both ends of the range may be deleteriously affected. Exposing for the shadows may be a way of referring to such a "shadow favouring" decision.
Those investigations may also lead to efforts to modify the SLR - things like using reflectors, fill-flash, in some cases filters and the old reliable choice of leaving and coming back when the light is better.
I have often seen recommendations to add one stop, or 2/3rds stop, to a palm reading. That is, isn't the palm of ones hand closer to Zone VI than Zone V??
Why would I do that?
Like runswithsizzers I am also interested in what the above procedure is for?
Thanks
pentaxuser
We have all often heard the advice to "expose for the shadows" when shooting negative film. But I expect there may be some variation in the exact methods we use. Please include the following: Do you use box ISO or do you set your meter to some other EI? What kind of meter do you use? Where exactly do you aim the meter? After you take your meter reading, how do you set the camera?
My usual metering method is to take an incident reading following the instructions provided by Gossen or Sekonic - so I don't have much experience with metering for the shadows.
But if I wanted to meter for the shadows, I would do it something like this:
1. I usually set my meter to some EI slightly less than box speed: for most ISO 400 film from Kodak or Ilford, I would set my meter to EI 320 or 250. I usually develop in XTOL, which is said to be speed preserving.
2. I would choose something in my scene which I think should be in Zone 3 - say a shaded tree trunk that has some bark texture I want to preserve.
3. Using either my camera's built in meter (simple center weighted TTL), or one of my hand-held meters, I would take a reflected reading from the shaded tree trunk.
4. I would reduce the meter reading by two stops, and set the camera to that value.
I shoot 35mm film, so I don't mess with any kind of notes about contrast range or plus/minus developing - the whole roll unavoidably gets the same development.
It is Step 3 that I am particularly wondering about. I have heard some photographers would either take an incident reading in the shade - or take a reflected reading from a gray card in the same light (shade) as the zone 3 shadow. Pros and Cons?
35mm in my case
Nothing fancy for me.
Pretty much the advice a teacher gives to a student in a beginner class................. a reflective meter on the darkest area that will show some detail.
Shooting box speed i would then close down 2 stops.
.
We have all often heard the advice to "expose for the shadows" when shooting negative film. But I expect there may be some variation in the exact methods we use. Please include the following: Do you use box ISO or do you set your meter to some other EI? What kind of meter do you use? Where exactly do you aim the meter? After you take your meter reading, how do you set the camera?
My usual metering method is to take an incident reading following the instructions provided by Gossen or Sekonic - so I don't have much experience with metering for the shadows.
But if I wanted to meter for the shadows, I would do it something like this:
1. I usually set my meter to some EI slightly less than box speed: for most ISO 400 film from Kodak or Ilford, I would set my meter to EI 320 or 250. I usually develop in XTOL, which is said to be speed preserving.
2. I would choose something in my scene which I think should be in Zone 3 - say a shaded tree trunk that has some bark texture I want to preserve.
3. Using either my camera's built in meter (simple center weighted TTL), or one of my hand-held meters, I would take a reflected reading from the shaded tree trunk.
4. I would reduce the meter reading by two stops, and set the camera to that value.
I shoot 35mm film, so I don't mess with any kind of notes about contrast range or plus/minus developing - the whole roll unavoidably gets the same development.
It is Step 3 that I am particularly wondering about. I have heard some photographers would either take an incident reading in the shade - or take a reflected reading from a gray card in the same light (shade) as the zone 3 shadow. Pros and Cons
No, @runswithsizzers was right. His meter is trying to make the tree trunk mid-grey. He wants it to be a shadow, therefore he should give it less exposure. Two stops less makes it a shadow with discernible detail.s
step 4 is how you take a photograph of an object or person in a backlit area.
According to beyond monochrome? you would simple turn the cameras metering system on, and adjust the aperture and shutter speed on the DARKEST shadow you want to have something appear in.
ie your in a library, you pop the camera meter over to the book case with the darkest shadows THAT YOU WANT TO SEE BOOKS IN,, and take readings off of that.
Then i would personally bracket.
Two stops less makes it a shadow with discernible detail.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?