Hey its my first time developing a B&W film, and I know they need to be at 20 degrees, my question is, if the chemiclas aren't in the proper temeprature, how do I change that???
How do I heat or cool the Chemicals???
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The easiest way is with a water bath, 25-50 mm deep in a photo tray, or a pan of some sort, or just in a sink. Get the water to the target temperature by adding cool or warm water as needed, then put in your developing tank and chemical bottles. If the ambient temperature is cool, the water bath will need to be slightly warmer than your target. When the temperature of your developer gets to your target, you are ready to start processing. It may take a few minutes to get the chems to the right temperature if the change needed is small, but could trade considerably longer if you need a big change, like 5 or 10 degrees.
With most developers you can work with temperatures higher than 20 degrees, which will make life easier if you are in a warm climate.
For temperatures warmer than 20, you compensate by using less time, most manufacturers publish charts for their chemistry with recommendations for various film, developer and temperature combinations.
With most developers you can work with temperatures higher than 20 degrees, which will make life easier if you are in a warm climate.
For temperatures warmer than 20, you compensate by using less time, most manufacturers publish charts for their chemistry with recommendations for various film, developer and temperature combinations.
The warmer the chemical are the shorter the development time, however one does not want to go below 5 minutes for developer to avoid unevenness problems. So some developers can be used up to 23 degrees C. Which developer are you planning to use, so we can provide you with the higher temperature development times?
Water baths with hot water can be used to raise chemical temperatures or water baths with cold water with or without ice can lower the temperature. Fill a tray, basin or sink with water that is warm or cold and place the chemical bottles in the tray, basin or sink and use a thermometer to check the chemical temperatures.
Please feel free to ask questions. The only poor questions are the ones that are not asked. By the way none of us were born with photographic knowledge, some taught us.
+1 on what bdial said about checking manufacturers charts. Ilford is very good at providing that kind of info (as here, re: HP5):
There are many methods for heating and maintaining temps, everything from aquarium heaters to sous vide heaters to dedicated devices like the Phototherm tempering bath that I have,
http://phototherm.com/bath.html
and infinite personal varieties rigged up by people who like messing with such things. I heat my chems in the Phototherm and put the tank in a tray with aquarium heater to develop. Before I got the Phototherm I did it all in the tray.
There is a really long thread in this forum somewhere a year or three back that goes into just about every thing and method that people use.
http://phototherm.com/bath.html
and infinite personal varieties rigged up by people who like messing with such things. I heat my chems in the Phototherm and put the tank in a tray with aquarium heater to develop. Before I got the Phototherm I did it all in the tray.
There is a really long thread in this forum somewhere a year or three back that goes into just about every thing and method that people use.
Depends. If the ambient temperature and thus the temperature of my chemicals is less than 18ºC, I will put the measured amounts of all the solutions in pitchers in a deep tray (I use a steam table tray) with hot water and monitor the chemical temperature until it comes within ±2º of 20º. I have done that for ambient temperatures of 13 to 16ºC. Colder than that, I am not in the darkroom! Otherwise, I just compensate the developing time for small temperature variances from 20ºC. To cool chemicals (I usually only do this for the developer), I will use a small plastic water bottle that has been frozen and immerse it in the pitcher until it reaches the desire temp.
I believe that OP needs to cool the temperatures.
He doesn't really say. The thread title is heat or cool.
OP
OP
Thank you for all your answers, only one more question, the 20 degrees temperature is aplied to preparing the chemicals to right? I mean the water has to be at 20 degrees when im mixing or only the final mixture when making the baths?? THis is a bit confusing for me XD
A water bath of hotter/colder temperature with the chemicals in relatively thin bottles (to aid transfer of heat) is the least expensive and easiest way to do it. It takes a little time, but you can start this process while you then go on to load film into the tank, and prepare everything else for the work. It really is pretty quick.
When I used concentrated developers like HC-110 that had to be diluted before use, I took the temperature into account with the water I used to dilute. My fixer was always close enough to 20C to use as it was stored. For black and white, only the developer temperature is critical, the other solutions should be close to that of the developer, but don't need to be precise.
When I used concentrated developers like HC-110 that had to be diluted before use, I took the temperature into account with the water I used to dilute. My fixer was always close enough to 20C to use as it was stored. For black and white, only the developer temperature is critical, the other solutions should be close to that of the developer, but don't need to be precise.
OP
OP
also, is only the water or the original chemicals too??
MattKing
Moderator
Welcome to Photrio.
What ambient room temperature are you working in?
If it is close to 20C, you don't need to change the temperature of the solutions, just adjust the time of development, and do everything at room temperature.
If you are mixing up the chemicals, and they are liquid, just work with room temperature water.
If you are mixing from powder chemicals, the mixing instructions will tell you what temperature of water to use.
What ambient room temperature are you working in?
If it is close to 20C, you don't need to change the temperature of the solutions, just adjust the time of development, and do everything at room temperature.
If you are mixing up the chemicals, and they are liquid, just work with room temperature water.
If you are mixing from powder chemicals, the mixing instructions will tell you what temperature of water to use.
Each set of chemicals may have mixing directions. XTOL has two parts: Solution A and Solution B. For Solution A the water must be around 30 degrees C with the powder slowly mixed in. All the powder must go into solution before continuing. Any particles must be in solution, if not the particles remain for a long time and can be a problem. Then Solution B is added and when it is, the solution turns from yellow to clear. Once solution B is mixed, warm water is added to fill to 5 liters. When the XTOL has cooled, it is ready to use. I use this as an example of a developer needing almost hot water, so that you see that the directions for each chemical the instructions need to be followed. The packages of the chemicals should have any special directions printed on it.
I suggest starting with mixes that need very little quantity of developper - such as HC-110 or Rodinal. That way, you just need to worry about the water temperature and not that of the chemicals (there's so little of them that it won't make a difference).
As others said, for stop and fix, exact temperature isn't as critical.
Here in California, it is often much warmer than 20 degrees C. I stick all of the prepared chemicals in the refrigerator until they are all well below 20 degrees. Then I pull them out with the thermometer in one of the jugs. When the temp warms up to about 19 degrees, I start processing and "fall through" the recommended temp. It seems to work pretty well. Good luck!
Martin
Martin
20C is the recommended temp - but you can develop between 18-24C pretty safely, all you need to do is adjust the development time (longer if it's less than 20C, shorter if it's more than 20C). There are a number of apps out there that can automatically make the conversion for you, I use the one from Digital Truth for all my film developing: click
If it's hot, and your water/chemicals are close to the ambient temperature, the best way to cool them down is to keep water and/or chemicals in the fridge until use, or to use a water bath to cool things down. For example, here in Japan in the summer my COLD water runs at 30-35C - it won't go any lower. So I keep bottles of distilled water in the fridge, and when I mix up my solutions for developing, I'll use a mix of ambient temp water and cold water - I check the thermometer as I mix since it's not a precise thing. If using a minimal amount of developer (like Rodinal) I don't worry about the temp of the developer, as I can control the water pretty well. But if I'm mixing a normal developer (say, D-76) in a 1:1 solution, I'll add the developer first, and then a mix of ambient and cold water to bring it down to 20C. In the event that I have NO cold water to work with, I have a plastic tub that I'll fill it (so that it comes up to the halfway mark of my tanks) with water and put as much ice as I can to get it as cold as possible - you don't want it at 20C, you want it much colder otherwise it'll take forever to cool down the chemicals. Conversely, if it's too cold (like right now), I'll fill the tub with hot water and wait for the chemicals to warm up. Note: solutions warm up a lot faster than they cool down so it's important to check the temperature of your chemicals (not the water) often and to pull them out of the water bath BEFORE they hit the desired temperature, as the temp will continue to rise (or drop) slightly even out of the bath. Similarly: regardless of water baths and everything else, if you are developing film when the weather is hot, your chemicals, even if they start at 20C, will rise in temp (a little) by the time you dump them - depending on how long your developing regime is, it could make a difference (it's worth checking at the start and end of developing to see what the difference is). But since you are just starting out, I wouldn't worry about it so much.
FWIW, I find it hard to keep my chemicals at a consistent 20C so my developing temps are closer to 22C for the most part - I just adjust the times as needed and haven't had any problems with this method.
If it's hot, and your water/chemicals are close to the ambient temperature, the best way to cool them down is to keep water and/or chemicals in the fridge until use, or to use a water bath to cool things down. For example, here in Japan in the summer my COLD water runs at 30-35C - it won't go any lower. So I keep bottles of distilled water in the fridge, and when I mix up my solutions for developing, I'll use a mix of ambient temp water and cold water - I check the thermometer as I mix since it's not a precise thing. If using a minimal amount of developer (like Rodinal) I don't worry about the temp of the developer, as I can control the water pretty well. But if I'm mixing a normal developer (say, D-76) in a 1:1 solution, I'll add the developer first, and then a mix of ambient and cold water to bring it down to 20C. In the event that I have NO cold water to work with, I have a plastic tub that I'll fill it (so that it comes up to the halfway mark of my tanks) with water and put as much ice as I can to get it as cold as possible - you don't want it at 20C, you want it much colder otherwise it'll take forever to cool down the chemicals. Conversely, if it's too cold (like right now), I'll fill the tub with hot water and wait for the chemicals to warm up. Note: solutions warm up a lot faster than they cool down so it's important to check the temperature of your chemicals (not the water) often and to pull them out of the water bath BEFORE they hit the desired temperature, as the temp will continue to rise (or drop) slightly even out of the bath. Similarly: regardless of water baths and everything else, if you are developing film when the weather is hot, your chemicals, even if they start at 20C, will rise in temp (a little) by the time you dump them - depending on how long your developing regime is, it could make a difference (it's worth checking at the start and end of developing to see what the difference is). But since you are just starting out, I wouldn't worry about it so much.
FWIW, I find it hard to keep my chemicals at a consistent 20C so my developing temps are closer to 22C for the most part - I just adjust the times as needed and haven't had any problems with this method.
What developer and fixer are you using?
If your developer or fixer is a dry chemical package, you need to mix it before using it, and you should do that several hours before using. Some chemicals heat up when mixed and some cool down, so it helps to have them mixed ahead of time. That way you don't need to worry about the temperature of the dry chemicals.
If your developer or fixer is a dry chemical package, you need to mix it before using it, and you should do that several hours before using. Some chemicals heat up when mixed and some cool down, so it helps to have them mixed ahead of time. That way you don't need to worry about the temperature of the dry chemicals.
OP
OP
im using pq universal and rapid fixer from ilford
PQ Universal is not primarily a film developer, though it is recommended for high contrast sheet film. I'd suggest a different film developer would be better for a beginner.
What other developers are available for purchase in your area?
What other developers are available for purchase in your area?
OP
OP
Ilfosol 3 is a very novice-friendly developer, easy to work with-- but must be stored with as little oxygen as possible. I take the standard 500ml bottle, and decant into 5 100ml brown glass bottles-- that way it has a reasonable (but not great) shelf life.
I'd start with the HC-110. Huge amount of info available on that developper. As I said earlier, so little is needed that you'll only have to worry about the water temp. You've had a lot of good tips so far on how to warm or cool it to the desired temp.
If you can find cheap styrofoam ice chests, or have a nice one, they can be used to stabilize chemical temp. People use them to keep gelatin warm at 110F.
Put some cool water (68F?) in the ice chest, adding an ice cube or two every once in a while to keep it at 68F
Have separate containers of chemicals in the ice chest to keep them cool and at the right temp for a long time.
Glass containers are nice -- easy to clean and transfer heat well.
Put some cool water (68F?) in the ice chest, adding an ice cube or two every once in a while to keep it at 68F
Have separate containers of chemicals in the ice chest to keep them cool and at the right temp for a long time.
Glass containers are nice -- easy to clean and transfer heat well.
I've used a microwave to warm chemistry. I've been using the same unit for 20+ years. It's never used for food, permanently in my darkroom. I use very short bursts 5-7 seconds, in Kodak darkroom graduates. After each bump with the mw you need to stir. If the microwave energy is coming from above there's no gravity convection to distribute the heat. My darkroom is cool all year round, it's easier to warm solutions in a warm water bath then cool solutions in a cold water bath do to convection.
I've noticed when Pfizer is shipping the Covid vaccine they put the priceless vials in the bottom of the insulated shipping container, then dump a bucket of dry ice on top.
I've noticed when Pfizer is shipping the Covid vaccine they put the priceless vials in the bottom of the insulated shipping container, then dump a bucket of dry ice on top.
OP
OP
Why the oxygen thing???
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