High speed (~1000EI) film+dev combo for portrait work in poor available light

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

I'd like to take some portraits in a setting I'm not overly familiar with. The subject is indoor, no flash or artificial lighting available. The light source is a window placed beside the subject. I do have a round silver panel I could use to reflect the window light on the shaded side of the face.

I will meter exposure on the subject's face with a Sekonic incident. I will use 35mm and 120 film. Camera will be handheld.

A couple of crucial considerations

My first concern is avoiding motion blur. So the film/combo chosen will need to allow me to shoot at least 1/30th with my TLR or 1/60th with my SLR
Grain is not a concern - in fact, good looking grain (eg I find Kentmere 400 in D76 1+1 good looking) is a plus
The film stock must not be extra red sensitive. I intensely dislike portraits rendered on film with increased red sensitivity (> 650nm usually)

The following options are out:

Foma 400 - too much red sensitivity https://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-400
Ilford Delta 3200 too much red sensitivity https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1913/product/682/
Delta 400 - too much red sensitivity https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1915/product/684/
Trix 400 - too expensive for what it does (IME)

I am considering the following possibilities

Ilford HP5+ in Microphen 1+1 exposed at 800EI
Kentmere 400 in Microphen 1+1 exposed at 800EI
Kodak TMAX 3200 in D76 or XT-3 1+1 exposed at 1000EI - this is only available in 35mm though.
Kodak TMAX 400 in D76 or XT-3 1+1 exposed at 800EI

Any other combos and thoughts/experiences on the above appreciated.

john_s · Oct 17, 2023

Pushing HP5+ in Microphen I've used and have been happy with. But pushing produces more contrast, so if light is directional the shaded parts of the face will be dark. That might suit the subject, maybe not.
Can you do a trial run? The reflector sounds like a good idea.
To avoid pushing and excessive contrast, maybe the TMax3200 is worth a try.

Helge · Oct 17, 2023

One can’t help but wonder who and why would set such strict limitations on a shoot that sounds like it’s conducted in relative private?

Red dominance depends hugely on the light.
If it’s gray and overcast you will get the slightly grittier look you get with blue/green sensitivity.
If it’s golden hour or direct sun then even HP5 will show some of the brightening and porcelain-ish effects of red sensitive film.
Use filters correct to this.

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

john_s said:
Pushing HP5+ in Microphen I've used and have been happy with. But pushing produces more contrast, so if light is directional the shaded parts of the face will be dark. That might suit the subject, maybe not.
Can you do a trial run? The reflector sounds like a good idea.
To avoid pushing and excessive contrast, maybe the TMax3200 is worth a try.

I'm tempted to get a roll of HP5, one of TMAX3200, one of TMAX 400, develop everything in Xtol 1:1 and compare.

I have a Lastolite reflector that should allow me to reduce the range between the bright and dark side of the model's face by a couple of stops.

@Helge - thanks. If you could relax some of those limitations what would you go for? Ceiling-bounced flash? I don't own pro lighting equipment, and I like the mood set by a simple window light source, actually. The light is most likely going to be overcast.

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

Here's a couple of examples pulled from Flickr to show what I have in mind in terms of scene settings (though I am looking for more grain and definitely not going for the clean LF look in some of these)

Nicholas Lindan · Oct 17, 2023

In B&W, color balance isn't an issue.

So, any old light source will do as well as any other. A floor lamp, a Tensor lamp from behind for hair highlights, a candle. I've take some portraits with only a candle for illumination.

For a reflector on window lit 'environmental' portraits I have used a 30x40 sheet of white foamcore propped up on a dining room chair.

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

Nicholas Lindan said:
I've take some portraits with only a candle for illumination.

Thanks Nicholas. What was your film/dev choice to achieve this technical feat.

Ian C · Oct 17, 2023

Echoing post #6, I’d use a tripod and cable release. Most portrait subjects can hold sufficiently still for shutter speeds as slow as 1/4 second if necessary. That would make it easy to use a wider variety of films, and even some filtration if wanted.

You can use the electric lights in the room to fill in the background and shsdows to the extent wanted. Take meter readings with and without various lights on until you get the desired window/room light ratio you want. Moveable lamps will make this even simpler.

Using these ideas will let you use less expensive slower films with smoother tonality. I recommend using film no faster than ASA 400.

snusmumriken · Oct 17, 2023

You might want to look at Faces by Jane Bown, as she excelled at this kind of available light portraiture. IIRC, she gives some detail on her available light portrait technique. There may be more technical info online (there are definitely YouTube video interviews) but I haven’t explored it.

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

snusmumriken said:
You might want to look at Faces by Jane Bown, as she excelled at this kind of available light portraiture. IIRC, she gives some detail on her available light portrait technique. There may be more technical info online (there are definitely YouTube video interviews) but I haven’t explored it.

Great recommendation, thanks. Ordered a copy. That portrait she took of S. Beckett is timeless.

koraks · Oct 17, 2023

I've recently done a portrait project where I shot part of it under similar conditions to what you describe. I shot with strobes for part of the project and available light for another part. The available light part worked out to generally something around 1/10 @ f/2.8 @ EI400 (Portra rated at box speed in my case), which worked perfectly fine when working from a small and nimble tripod (and 6x6 / 80mm) and cable release.

Hand held? I haven't even considered the option, to be frank. As in your case, I wanted to prevent motion blur. This meant that the tripod was really a no-brainer. A tripod with a ball head is pretty flexible and tends to work fine for this sort of thing. It doesn't have to be extremely heavy duty given the kind of gear you're shooting with, so something that favors rapid adjustments over rigidity would work well.

And maybe create an opening for a follow-up shoot to fill in the gaps that you miss the first time round.

Helge · Oct 17, 2023

albireo said:
I'm tempted to get a roll of HP5, one of TMAX3200, one of TMAX 400, develop everything in Xtol 1:1 and compare.

I have a Lastolite reflector that should allow me to reduce the range between the bright and dark side of the model's face by a couple of stops.

@Helge - thanks. If you could relax some of those limitations what would you go for? Ceiling-bounced flash? I don't own pro lighting equipment, and I like the mood set by a simple window light source, actually. The light is most likely going to be overcast.

Not ceiling bounced flash necessarily, that can look trite and cliché or just plain bad depending (though still much better than direct).
Bounce from a side wall or wall and ceiling, or the back wall.
Anything in a 180 degree sphere away from the subject (to avoid direct spill).
Or set up your reflector and bounce off that.

Window light can look nice but is used so much it recalls and references a lot of other photos. There is often something wistfull or staged poetic about the look. Which depending on the intent can be good or bad.

Look, all I’m really saying is that since it sounds like you are going to fire off a whole roll or more, you might as well get some real variety to chose from in the shots.
There a mix of flash and ambient could be nice.

GregY · Oct 17, 2023

As has been suggested, I'd definitely use a tripod in this situation, before going to high speed or pushed film.

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

Ok I see the general consensus developing.

But if I didn't want to use a tripod and I was actually seeking the grainy look?

People who have compared pushed HP5+ in D76/Xtol/Microphen to pushed TMAX 400 or TMAX 3200 at 1000EI - which one did you prefer for your portraits, and why?

koraks · Oct 17, 2023

albireo said:
But if I didn't want to use a tripod and I were actually seeking the grainy look?

Regardless of the grainy look; under the conditions you describe, I don't see how you're going to consistently avoid motion blur even with pushed film. You'd be working with exposures in the 1/20-1/30 range or so even with HP5+ pushed a stop. Push it further, and you'll be battling harsh contrast due to open shadows, even when using a reflector to get some fill in the dark side.

I think you're painting yourself into a corner.

Helge · Oct 17, 2023

koraks said:
Regardless of the grainy look; under the conditions you describe, I don't see how you're going to consistently avoid motion blur even with pushed film. You'd be working with exposures in the 1/20-1/30 range or so even with HP5+ pushed a stop. Push it further, and you'll be battling harsh contrast due to open shadows, even when using a reflector to get some fill in the dark side.

I think you're painting yourself into a corner.

A lot of getting to know any medium very well is to kill your mental darlings and randomly picked up notions.
But the very fact that you ask questions in earnest is a good sign.

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

koraks said:
under the conditions you describe, I don't see how you're going to consistently avoid motion blur even with pushed film. You'd be working with exposures in the 1/20-1/30 range

Well that would depend on the size of the window and the quantity/quality of light I can get through it.

The window is pretty huge (it's door sized) and I know what I can squeeze from it pretty well. I've been able during Summer months to take perfectly sharp handheld pictures in its vicinity with some Kentmere 100 so I will be fine with overcast Autumn light using 800 or 1600-equivalent material. Sure, I will lose some frames to motion blur, but it's an experiment after all I'm not trying to approach the masterpieces above (I'm not even remotely capable).

Also one of the clear constraints I set in my post is that I want to play with strong-ish grain.

But I appreciate all the angles, of course.

GregY · Oct 17, 2023

Albireo what 35mm lenses will you be using (focal length and max aperture)? Also what final product are you envisioning?..... max print size? Also it sounds like you'll be potentially battling subject movement and camera shake.... why are you opposed to using a tripod?

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

GregY said:
Albireo what 35mm lenses will you be using (focal length and max aperture)? Also what final product are you envisioning?..... max print size? Also it sounds like you'll be potentially battling subject movement and camera shake.... why are you opposed to using a tripod?

Greg - I have a selection of primes.. A 40mm f/2, a Zuiko OM 35mm f/28. I might try my 85mm f/1.8 at a push. As for the final product I'd love a few nice prints in the 12" x 8" region.

Concidentally I just unwrapped a recent purchase (Robert Lebeck - Hierzulande) and noticed the cover photo:

This is the kind of look I crave. The setting is perhaps not entirely the same: I'm not sure whether this is a train coach or an apartment or a cabin of some sort. But this is the type of light I'd be looking to study/employ. I would imagine this would have been taken handheld - though perhaps taken with a rangefinder camera, not an SLR. The grain is present, and I wouldn't mind even a little more than this.

GregY · Oct 17, 2023

albireo said:
Greg - I have a selection of primes.. A 40mm f/2, a Zuiko OM 35mm f/28. I might try my 85mm f/1.8 at a push. As for the final product I'd love a few nice prints in the 12" x 8" region.

Concidentally I just unwrapped a recent purchase (Robert Lebeck - Hierzulande) and noticed the cover photo:

This is the kind of look I crave. The setting is perhaps not entirely the same: I'm not sure whether this is a train coach or an apartment. But this is the type of light I'd be looking for. I would imagine this would have been handheld - though perhaps taken with a rangefinder. The grain is present, and I wouldn't mind even a little more than this.

The photo certainly looks informal & could have been handheld.... but depending on the time of day you're planning....I can see getting a similar effect w 400 iso. I'd take TriX over Tmax 400 if i wanted grain. The advantage of a tripod is you get to control the framing , the focus and the camera shake.....

warden · Oct 17, 2023

albireo said:
I'd like to take some portraits in a setting I'm not overly familiar with. The subject is indoor, no flash or artificial lighting available. The light source is a window placed beside the subject. I do have a round silver panel I could use to reflect the window light on the shaded side of the face.

I will meter exposure on the subject's face with a Sekonic incident. I will use 35mm and 120 film. Camera will be handheld.

A couple of crucial considerations

My first concern is avoiding motion blur. So the film/combo chosen will need to allow me to shoot at least 1/30th with my TLR or 1/60th with my SLR

Grain is not a concern - in fact, good looking grain (eg I find Kentmere 400 in D76 1+1 good looking) is a plus

The film stock must not be extra red sensitive. I intensely dislike portraits rendered on film with increased red sensitivity (> 650nm usually)

The following options are out:

Foma 400 - too much red sensitivity https://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-400

Ilford Delta 3200 too much red sensitivity https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1913/product/682/

Delta 400 - too much red sensitivity https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1915/product/684/

Trix 400 - too expensive for what it does (IME)

I am considering the following possibilities

Ilford HP5+ in Microphen 1+1 exposed at 800EI

Kentmere 400 in Microphen 1+1 exposed at 800EI

Kodak TMAX 3200 in D76 or XT-3 1+1 exposed at 1000EI - this is only availabe in 35mm though.

Kodak TMAX 400 in D76 or XT-3 1+1 exposed at 800EI

Any other combos and thoughts/experiences on the above appreciated.

I can't comment on developers as I haven't used the ones you're planning on using, but for natural light grainy portraits by a window I'd try Delta 3200 shot at iso1600 as a first choice, or HP5 at iso 800 as a second choice.

albireo · Oct 17, 2023

warden said:
I can't comment on developers as I haven't used the ones you're planning on using, but for natural light grainy portraits by a window I'd try Delta 3200 shot at iso1600 as a first choice, or HP5 at iso 800 as a second choice.

Thank you - I don't know HP5 at all, and the Microphen solution was just an idea. What developer would you recommend to make HP5 'sing' in this sort of set up?

warden · Oct 17, 2023

albireo said:
Thank you - I don't know HP5 at all, and the Microphen solution was just an idea. What developer would you recommend to make HP5 'sing' in this sort of set up?

I've been using Ilford Ilfosol 3 with HP5 and I like the results quite a bit. For D3200 I'd go with DDX which I have also been happy with.

MattKing · Oct 17, 2023

albireo said:
Greg - I have a selection of primes.. A 40mm f/2, a Zuiko OM 35mm f/28. I might try my 85mm f/1.8 at a push. As for the final product I'd love a few nice prints in the 12" x 8" region.

Concidentally I just unwrapped a recent purchase (Robert Lebeck - Hierzulande) and noticed the cover photo:

This is the kind of look I crave. The setting is perhaps not entirely the same: I'm not sure whether this is a train coach or an apartment or a cabin of some sort. But this is the type of light I'd be looking to study/employ. I would imagine this would have been taken handheld - though perhaps taken with a rangefinder camera, not an SLR. The grain is present, and I wouldn't mind even a little more than this.

I'd be willing to bet that the photographer, at a minimum, braced himself against a surface when taking that shot.
With a camera on a support of some kind, it is much easier to devote more attention to the subject - perfect for portraiture.

GregY · Oct 17, 2023

MattKing said:
I'd be willing to bet that the photographer, at a minimum, braced himself against a surface when taking that shot.
With a camera on a support of some kind, it is much easier to devote more attention to the subject - perfect for portraiture.

I agree entirely MK. A tripod doesn't really show in the final image....If your staging a portrait, choosing the light and then using a reflector....you're managing a set. Why not create a situation where as you say it's easier "to devote more attention to the subject."

High speed (~1000EI) film+dev combo for portrait work in poor available light

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High speed (~1000EI) film+dev combo for portrait work in poor available light

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