Help With Slide Copier Negative Scanning

[craigclu]

I recently dug out my old bellows and slide copier gear (Konica-based) to copy the manual for someone. It got me thinking that I might try shooting negatives through it as I've seen others succeed as an alternative to their scanners. I was enthused to be able to capture the grain quite sharply in some initial attempts. My trouble is that I can't seem to orient my gear to capture the framing as I'd wish (just able to get small part of the frame). I've not done any real macro work with this rig, even after owning it for 20 years (shelf queen). I'm attaching a photo, attached to a Fuji rig and my 55 macro Hexanon. Nothing I've tried seems to be able to capture the whole 35mm frame. I must be doing something obviously wrong but I'm ready to place it back in its box on the shelf at this point. Any insights out there from experience?

 

[MattKing]

I'm having a similar problem. The slide copiers are designed to give a 1:1 image on to a full frame of film. If you have a smaller than full frame sensor, you need either less distance between the lens and the camera, or a shorter focal length lens.

 

[reddesert]

The all-in-one slide copiers or zoom slide copiers that were very common as (usually) T-mount accessories, allowed 1:1 or greater from a 35mm slide onto 35mm film. So with a less than full frame sensor, it is not possible to capture the whole 35mm slide onto the sensor.

The OP's setup is a little different, as he has a bellows and a separate macro lens, which in principle allows more flexibility, But, OP, your current setup has too much extension - the lens looks like it is focused to give about 1:1, and I assume your Fuji has an APS-C sensor. You need a magnification ratio of about 1:1.5 (imaging a 24x36mm slide onto a 16x24mm sensor). I think the lens needs to come closer to the camera. It doesn't look like the bellows will compress much further, though. An extension tube would usually let you focus the macro lens to the 1:1.5 ratio, but then you need to figure out how to get the slide holder part mounted to the lens without the bellows being in the way.

Nikon made a couple of doodads (ES-1 and ES-2) that can screw to the front of a macro lens and hold a slide, which address this problem. I have the older one of these, and it works, but unfortunately I mostly want to copy negatives, not slides, and it's much better at holding slides.

 

[craigclu]

That all makes sense. I've also got the Macro Lens Adapter for the 55 (non optical extender).... While I'm messing with this, I'll see if I can jimmy-rig something that works. I wouldn't pursue it but I'm a bit lukewarm about my results with my Canon 9950F's film scanning abilities and I was surprised at the clarity I was getting on the portion of the negative I could capture with this. It seems worth pursuing, anyway. Thanks for clarifications!

 

[jtk]

Fwiw I'm getting almost exactly 1:1 with 16mm Samsung prime and "10mm" Samsung extension tube. That short lens seems to be flat field and is achingly high resolution.

In 80s I cobbled-up and have kept an excellent slide holder with parts of a simple slide projecter (then bought a Bowens Illumitran).

To copy negatives I'd use Durst enlarger masks...or simply dismantle a Bower slide/strip copier for those parts (bought that online just out of curiosity...works perfectly with Samsung kit zoom but I want prime and don't want the copier's intervening extra lens element).

 

[runswithsizzers]

As other have said, that rig was designed for full-frame copying of 35mm film slides and the magnification is wrong for copying to APS-C size sensors.

If it's possible to photograph part of the negative/slide - and then move the film, and copy the other part (with a good overlap) then the two images can be merged.

Another option would be to remove the slide copying part (everything in front of the lens). If you simply lay your film on a light box, then you can position the camera+bellow+lens over the film at the right height to fill your sensor. Typical set-up shown <here> The rig shown in my photo is a 100mm lens set up to copy a 120 negative. Using your 55mm lens to copy a 35mm negative will result in your lens being much closer to your film that what is shown in my photo.

 

[craigclu]

I just realized that I have an old Multiblitz Dia-Duplicator squirreled away somewhere.... It should make an ideal stage for this. I'm sort of living out of boxes recently and off my game! I've got a houseful arriving for the holidays but will go digging and see what I can assemble. I suppose I should search out an adapter to allow me to use flat field optics on my bellows. I'm a real newbie to this type of macro duties and don't know if these bellows rigs have some commonality in accepting mounts? All of the major brand camera companies' bellows look so similar and seem to come from some common sourcing? This is what my Multiblitz unit looks like:

It's been so many years since I looked at it, I forgot that it went to 6X7 until finding this image/info just now....

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I recently dug out my old bellows and slide copier gear (Konica-based) to copy the manual for someone. It got me thinking that I might try shooting negatives through it as I've seen others succeed as an alternative to their scanners. I was enthused to be able to capture the grain quite sharply in some initial attempts. My trouble is that I can't seem to orient my gear to capture the framing as I'd wish (just able to get small part of the frame). I've not done any real macro work with this rig, even after owning it for 20 years (shelf queen). I'm attaching a photo, attached to a Fuji rig and my 55 macro Hexanon. Nothing I've tried seems to be able to capture the whole 35mm frame. I must be doing something obviously wrong but I'm ready to place it back in its box on the shelf at this point. Any insights out there from experience?

View attachment 236619

if your camera is APS-C you don’t need full 1:1 to copy full frame. If you can’t capture the full frame, then you either aren’t getting the frame to be copied far enough away, or if you’re at the max extension of the front part, you need a shorter focal length lens.

I have an APS-C dslr with 70mm macro lens as my current setup and to copy full frame, there needs to be about 12 inches (ballpark) between the sensor in the camera and frame to be copied with the lens attached directly to the camera body. With a 55mm lens, you’d need even less distance.

You probably have too much bellows between the lens and camera and not enough bellows between the lens and the frame to be copied.

 

[jtk]

Get a set of extension tubes...cheap. Auto tubes, ideally.

 

[jtk]

Just finished a bunch of 1:1 35mm slides to full APSC using 50mm Pentax macro and shortest extension tube...maybe 10 mm. Was about 6" between lens and slide resting on light box . Tiny focus tweaks between slides...maybe not important @ f8.