Help me identify and rectify this staining of FB paper

[Don_ih]

A possible solution would be to brush some pot.fer. bleach on those areas, rinse, and refix. Probably worth a try.

 

[removed account4]

You may very well be right, but Sprint's suggested time is 30 seconds at 1:4, while Ilford's is 60 seconds.

on the sprint website it says for a minimum of 3 minutes fixing for films and prints
https://www.sprintsystems.com/how-to-mix
https://piccolo-cod-4xyc.squarespace.com/how-to-mix/#RECORDSF

I can't speak for the paper you are using, it looks nice but I've never used it, what does the info on the paper say in requires to fix completely ? I usually go by the paper recommendations and split the fixing between 2 fixing baths .. rinse between the 2nd and 1st then rinse then fix remover then long wash..

have fun!
John

 

[MattKing]

I can understand any confusion that the OP may be experiencing.
From the documents linked to by jnantz:

How to Use
To fix either B&W films or prints, immerse in working solution for a minimum of 3 minutes. Agitate continuously for the first minute, and for 10-15 seconds for each minute thereafter.
USE NON-HARDENING FIXER FOR NORMAL B&W PRINTS
Prints may be left in non-hardening fixer for at least 10 minutes without bleach damage. To reduce print fixing time, use the Fast Print Fixer working solution for 30 seconds with constant agitation.

 

[Dusty Negative]

on the sprint website it says for a minimum of 3 minutes fixing for films and prints

That’s for 1:9. Keep scrolling for 1:4 -

“Prints may be left in non-hardening fixer for at least 10 minutes without bleach damage. To reduce print fixing time, use the Fast Print Fixer working solution for 30 seconds with constant agitation.”

 

[Dusty Negative]

I can't speak for the paper you are using, it looks nice but I've never used it, what does the info on the paper say in requires to fix completely ?

It assumes you’ll be using Ilford fix. For a 1:4 solution it recommends 60 seconds.

 

[MattKing]

I wonder if the Art 300 paper is not appropriate for the "fast" version of the fixer.

 

[mshchem]

I've been using "film strength" rapid fix (Kodak or Hypam) for some time. Constant agitation in fresh fixer 1 minute. Works great.

 

[removed account4]

you might consider contacting sprint directly and asking them what they suggest. they have real live people there, and experienced photographers who use their chemistry with every paper and film under the sun might have experience with that paper and would be able to give you a better idea of what you should do.

good luck !
John

 

[MattKing]

One of the things I find unusual about the Sprint documentation is that it doesn't make separate reference to fibre based and RC prints. I expect to see recommendations for fixing times that differ between the two substrates. In some ways the Art 300 paper is fibre based paper on steroids, so I would expect even more of a difference.
The idea of contacting Sprint is a good one. Art 300 probably didn't even exist when they wrote their directions.

 

[Dusty Negative]

I wonder if the Art 300 paper is not appropriate for the "fast" version of the fixer.

I first saw the brown stains when I was using fix at 1:9. Actually, that was the reason I switched to 1:4, thinking that I was leaving the paper too long in the fixing bath.

 

[Dusty Negative]

you might consider contacting sprint directly and asking them what they suggest. they have real live people there, and experienced photographers who use their chemistry with every paper and film under the sun might have experience with that paper and would be able to give you a better idea of what you should do.

good luck !
John

Good idea. I shall!

 

[removed account4]

One of the things I find unusual about the Sprint documentation is that it doesn't make separate reference to fibre based and RC prints. I expect to see recommendations for fixing times that differ between the two substrates. In some ways the Art 300 paper is fibre based paper on steroids, so I would expect even more of a difference.
The idea of contacting Sprint is a good one. Art 300 probably didn't even exist when they wrote their directions.

my guess is for the 300 paper it's about 5 or 6 minutes.. and 30-60 seconds is for RC paper...

Good idea. I shall!

thumb's up.

 

[Don_ih]

I'd believe @NB23 - it's probably residual developer in the edges of the paper developing out free silver in the fixer.
He said he encountered the problem and it was resolved by more aggressive stop.

 

[Dusty Negative]

So, preliminary results are promising. Upped my Stop time to 1:30, and no border staining! Huzzah!

Of course, I went for gold and popped the print in selenium after a quick 5-min wash, and it’s now a hot mess. But that’s an aside from the primary hypothesis so I can live with this for now, though it did force me to jot down the following ditty:

Some people get stains
While other folks don’t
A sharp tack will know why
But I probably won’t

I emailed Sprint to see if they have any insights, but no answer yet.

 

[MattKing]

Of course, I went for gold and popped the print in selenium after a quick 5-min wash, and it’s now a hot mess.

The Art 300 sucks in chemicals.
A 5 minute wash and no washaid is not going to do the job.

 

[Dusty Negative]

The Art 300 sucks in chemicals.
A 5 minute wash and no washaid is not going to do the job.

Yep. Next one is going through the complete 5/5/30 (5-minute pre-wash/5-minute wash aid/30-min wash).

Why am I not using RC, again?

 

[Dusty Negative]

The Art 300 sucks in chemicals.
A 5 minute wash and no washaid is not going to do the job.

Figured I’d post the source of all this trouble:

portrait of one of my daughters.

 

[NB23]

Gorgeous.

Print as much as you can, family is priceless

 

[CMoore]

Figured I’d post the source of all this trouble:

portrait of one of my daughters.

View attachment 284731

Have you, or do you ever go to The Gallery section of the forum, at the top of the page.?
It is "My Favorite" area of the forum.

You should post this photo there.
She is a very attractive young woman, and you have captured her quite well.

Good Luck

 

[grain elevator]

Way back with Kodak COLOR fiber base papers there was a presoak. Might help to reduce developer carry over to acid stop that is what protects the fixer.

This sounds like a very good idea to me, could also help with wash times if the paper doesn't suck up so much chemistry.

 

[pentaxuser]

Has Ilford got it wrong?(OK a rhetorical question on my part) It says for Art 300 a Stop for 10 secs, Fix for 1 min( it actually strenuously advises against longer than this) and then the Optimum permanence sequence of 5(running water) -10(Ilford washaid with intermittent agitation) -5(running water)

I presume that before launching this stuff it did a lot of careful research into the process, given this was a departure from normal FB to cotton rag paper

Based on Ilford's text it would seem that fresh stop bath is crucial but the usual 10 secs is fine. Using double or even treble at 30 secs may be a worthwhile belt and braces approach but 10 times the Ilford stop bath time of 1 min 30 secs may not be harmful but does make one wonder if it actually helps

It is not me or my pictures and paper but I'd be tempted to stick strictly to the 1 min fix and never deviate; try 30 secs stop and gradually reduce it to maybe 15-20 and combine that with the 5-10-5 wash sequence:

pentaxuser

 

[removed account4]

the chemistry always seems to work immediately as long as it is in full contact with the photographic emulsion. I think because the art 300 paper floats it needs to be treated with special care, but still carefully submerged and flipped in a tray. years back when I was running 10 to 16 prints at a time through developer and its friends I was taught to always have a "wet hand" and a "dry hand" and we had tray rockers. the wet hand flipped prints 5 times and the tray rockers assured continuous agitation. over the years I have read threads ( and seen first hand in photo classes ) people just put the print in the developer, they don't flip it and sometimes just let it sit there, and they don't agitate their chemistry. maybe they agitate the developer a little but nothing else. maybe Dusty Negative didn't fully submerge and agitate his print ( which is very nice BTW ) in his stop bath and fixer so the chemistry could fully react with the emulsion.
regarding Ilford testing, who knows what they did and did not do, I had and have boxes and boxes of Ilford MGFB paper and the emulsion on the edge of many of the prints discolors and flakes off. I reported it to Ilford when it happened, even sent them pictures and jpgs, and was told they had no idea what it was .. it was for a job, and 15 years later I am still leery of using their paper.

 

[Pat Erson]

I'd believe @NB23 - it's probably residual developer in the edges of the paper developing out free silver in the fixer.
He said he encountered the problem and it was resolved by more aggressive stop.

That would make sense as the ART300 is quite thicker than regular FB paper. More time in a stronger stop bath might neutralize any residual traces of developer...

 

[Dusty Negative]

the chemistry always seems to work immediately as long as it is in full contact with the photographic emulsion. I think because the art 300 paper floats it needs to be treated with special care, but still carefully submerged and flipped in a tray. years back when I was running 10 to 16 prints at a time through developer and its friends I was taught to always have a "wet hand" and a "dry hand" and we had tray rockers. the wet hand flipped prints 5 times and the tray rockers assured continuous agitation. over the years I have read threads ( and seen first hand in photo classes ) people just put the print in the developer, they don't flip it and sometimes just let it sit there, and they don't agitate their chemistry. maybe they agitate the developer a little but nothing else. maybe Dusty Negative didn't fully submerge and agitate his print ( which is very nice BTW ) in his stop bath and fixer so the chemistry could fully react with the emulsion.

Admittedly, I’m an agitator (or would that be agitater?) but not much of a flipper. I am leery of flipping because I have damaged prints before while flipping, but that may be down to my novice status. I see your point, though, and may try more flipping.

 

[removed account4]

Admittedly, I’m an agitator (or would that be agitater?) but not much of a flipper. I am leery of flipping because I have damaged prints before while flipping, but that may be down to my novice status. I see your point, though, and may try more flipping.

you don't have to flip much just a couple of times not too fast, and learn the way to hold the print and rinse your gloved hand ( or you might get chemical stains from carry over). you don't need to manhandle just flip with care, and submerge let it sit, then flip again, and submerge and let it sit then rock the tray like you already do. the whole processing the print should be done lovingly .. also make sure you have enough chemistry in your tray you don't want to submerge in a way that you scrape or damage your print on the tray. the biggest problem a lot of people have is they are stingy or ungenerous with their chemistry ( or when making test strips to judge exposure ). make sure when you do your test strips you flip the strip the same way you flip your print so everything is agitated the same way ..
have fun!
John
ps. RE: novice. ... 40+ years, having done it for money, for art and for love im still a novice...