Help me find a solid TLR

[Pioneer]

The Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex cameras are very well built and solid. The Ikoflex 1a and Ikoflex IIa cameras are very good cameras with tough film advance systems and high quality Tessar lenses.

Although mine is a very good camera, and I love using it, the only Ikoflex I would stay clear of is the Ikoflex Favorit. It is really a great camera but when you rewind your film and remove it from the camera the shutter remains cocked. As a result they are more likely to have shutter spring fatigue. If you do find a good one keep film loaded at all times and don't immediately wind on the film before putting it away as this also cocks the shutter.

 

[johnnyh]

You might find an MPP Microcord (there are more of them around than of the Microflex).

As they are knob-wound and the shutter is armed manually (rather than by crank), there is less complexity to have suffered from decades of use/misuse.

The film transport mechanism start indexing is by red window underneath on the early models, by alignment of marks on the film gate and on the film leader on the later models. You would want to get the instructions applicable to the model in question.

The shutter is an Epsilon on the earliest models, easy enough to service although perhaps less familiar outside the UK, and it doesn't have a delayed action timer. Most are equipped with the Prontor, which of course does have delayed action.

The lens is an excellent Tessar-like f/3.5 77.5mm Ross Xpres; according to which history you read in the literature this was procured with MPP's own specification and/or quality control, matching to to view lens etc.

 

[elekm]

No rewinding the film with roll film camera.

If you want a camera for life, bite the bullet and buy a Rolleiflex. The Tessar and Xenar are excellent lenses, while the Planar and Xenotar will give you better performance wide open.

If you want something to play around and test the waters, there are plenty of others. I like the Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex IIa. It's about as close to a Rolleiflex that Zeiss Ikon got.

The Zeiss Ikon Favorit is a massively overbuilt cameras that brings a lot of unnecessary weight.

If you are looking for something lighter in weight, a Rolleicord will fit the bill.

With any TLR, you should run a test roll through the camera. What you're looking for is sharpness across the photo. Also, shoot a photo at infinity and wide open. Shoot a few closeups, as well.

 

[R.Gould]

If you want a TLR that will give you a lifetime of enjoyment then it must be a Rolleiflex or a Rolleicord, if you just want to dip your toes then there are several that fit the bill, maybe a Weltaflex, good if simple tlr's Knod wind and red window for frame spacing, but then again less to go wrong, Perhaps, if a Rollei is out of your price range then look for a Microcord, but look for thee Microcord 2, with the prontor shutter, based on a cross between a Rolleiflex and a Microcord, and with one of the best of the Tessar type lenses, the Ross Xpress, I have weltaflex, both Rolleis and a microcord in my collection, plus several Ensign folders using the Xpress lens, and it is a terrific lens

 

[smolk]

The Ross Xpres 77.5mm lens on the Microcord is unit focusing, the Xpres 105mm on the Ensign 820 Selfix and Selfix Special folders is front cell focusing. The [expensive!] 820 Autorange seems to have a unit focusing lens. The focal length is different in any case.
A very sharp folder to consider is the Telka III by DeMaria-LaPierre. 6x9 negatives, 90mm lens, unit focus, very good camera. About 100-150€ if you find one.
In many cases, for all of these models, a service will be necessary.
Rolleiflex is very sturdy indeed, but one used by a professional will also have seen a lot of (ab)use. Condition matters!

 

[elekm]

Luckily, Rolleiflex and Rolleicords weren't overpriced, so there are a lot of them out there on the used market. However, the previous note about condition is valid. Many were used professionally – either by a newspaper or in a studio. I would expect that those owned by newspapers might be a bit beat, knowing firsthand how news photographers treat their gear.

But both models also were owned by amateurs, and there are still many in good condition. None of my last four Rolleiflexes cost me more than $150: Automat with Tessar, early Rolleiflex I or II with a Tessar, a wartime Rolleiflex with an uncoated Tessar and a Rolleiflex with an f/2.8 Tessar.

You do have to search a bit and be ready to jump when the time comes.

 

[VisualDarkness]

Thank you all for the feedback and right now I'm awaiting a Voigtländer Superb with a Heliar. I developed a bunch of negatives from my Bergheil with a Heliar and hope the wonderful rendering will be similar. Wish me luck that the camera is in a nice condition!

 

[VisualDarkness]

Does anybody know for sure what sizes for filters and hoods that's compatible with the Heliar? I would like to buy some as soon as possible due to that I possibly want to bring the camera to a trip abroad soon. Also, any nice leather straps good for a TLR like this? Most threads about TLRs seems to be about Rollei and Mamiya.

 

[Shootar401]

Rolleiflex

 

[VisualDarkness]

I broke the budget by the double but ended up with this beauty that should last a long time.

The bad news:
The focusing is quite stiff (managed to get it there from stuck).
Sadly the ground glass aparently got busted one side during transit, still works though.
The black paint on the protruding part on the body under the lenses is kind of gooey and makes your fingers silvery black. It must a different paint than the rest of the body.

The good news:
After a bit of cleaning everything seems mechanically sound and nothing broken or bad.
The optics and the mirror is in great condition, optically also the ground glass after a cleaning.
Only slight oxidization on some parts left after cleaning but no serious rust.
Leather is good.

Voigtländer Superb Heliar by A.Sundell, on Flickr

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Why are the shutter speed ring digits rendered in mirror-image, while everything else reads correctly?

Ken

 

[VisualDarkness]

Why are the shutter speed ring digits rendered in mirror-image, while everything else reads correctly?

Ken

Voigtländer engineering!

- How are we going to show the shutter speeds when looking down at the camera?
- Maybe linking the selection ring to the viewing lens and paint the numbers also there?
- Too easy and maybe patented by the others.
- We could use a mirror prism.
- Yeah, that's an original way!
- Oh, the numbers are shown mirrored....
- That's a bummer.
- Lets paint the mirrored!
- Goofy but it works.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Anybody else?

Ken

 

[VisualDarkness]

Anybody else?

Ken

The answer is in the dialog. They had to avoid patents so they used a mirrorprism to reflect the shutter speeds up towards the user. The problem was that the mirror mirrored the numbers so the simply mirrored the marking so that they turned out the right way in the prism.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Thank you. Always remember that clarity is your friend...

Ken

 

[VisualDarkness]

Just like Voigtländer engineering, the easy and clear route is a no go.

 

[trythis]

Its to prevent people from using the camera for selfies!

 

[VisualDarkness]

Its to prevent people from using the camera for selfies!

They were ahead of their time then, about 70 years!

 

[flavio81]

Voigtländer engineering, the easy and clear route is a no go

Yes, i agree, that is exactly Voigtländer's way of desigining cameras.

 

[VisualDarkness]

Yes, i agree, that is exactly Voigtländer's way of desigining cameras.

Yep, they are nicely finished with great optics but often really quirky to use. Their manuals almost always have very detailed info on how to hold and use the cameras in a way that at first feels really unnatural. That is why I like them more than my easy to use and logical slr cameras, they got some kind of personality and refuses to do things other ways than how they were designed to be done.

One quite funny legend is that Franke and/or Heidecke supposedly introduced the TLR concept to the top people of Voigtländer but it was shot down by them with the arguments they already had too many cameras and the marketing comes up with concepts and the engineers then build them, then Rollei was born. If it's true I don't know but it sounds highly probable. They were most often a bit late to on the ball with new trends so they had to work around patents that other filed before them (Leitz/Leica, Rollei, Zeiss etc.), that resulted in a scenario where the easy ways to do things weren't possible to use.

 

[VisualDarkness]

Anybody knows why the first couple of Voigtländer Superb models got two red windows, one 6x9 (with a lid) on the side synched with the 6x6 (no lid) on the back?
Even Prochnow seems confused by this in Voigtländer Report.

Edit. Just found a part where he mentions that not all films had 6x6 markings at the time. Though one later model only had one window, the 6x9 one, for some reason that not even Claus seems to know for sure but it may have to do with that only the 6x9 one having a lid. Why not make a lid for the 6x6 one instead? It's Voigtländer.

 

[TooManyShots]

Really? Is either Rolliecord or Rollieflex, if you have the budget, around $300 to $700. Cheap and good working TLR? Yashica mat series with yashinon lens. Stay away from much of the earlier A, 635, B, and C models. Mat, EM, 124, and 124g are good. Average price is around $70 to $120 (may require some additional repairs and my have issues). Given with the age of the camera, most likely you need to CLA it either yourself or professionally, unless the buyer states that it has been CLA at all.

Most Yashica models have no flocking material to reduce internal reflection inside the film chamber. I think the latest 124g has some sorts of flocking design to reduce the internal reflection. Hence, shots from it would lose some contrast. You can spray paint the chamber yourself with some flat black paint.

Mamiya C series are good too but it is a system and most likely you will spend more money on lenses down the road. Is twice as heavy as the smaller TLR like the Rollie and Yashica mat.