Help Choosing a Sub-Compact 16mm Camera

Cholentpot · May 19, 2019

Hi,

I was given a Kodak Pocket Instamatic 60 that I got working again and got myself a roll of 110. I think I've got the 16mm bug now. I have a Yankee clipper tank so I can develop the stuff myself. Now, I'd like to find something smaller and more manual than the Kodak. I've been looking at the Minolta 16 line but I suspect I can do better. I'd rather a mechanical camera than an EE or battery dependent camera. For film I'm looking at getting some microfilm and rolling it myself.

Any camera suggestions or opinions? What to look for and what to stay away from?

Thanks.

removed account4 · May 19, 2019

Mamiya 16mm's are beautiful but make sure you have the cassettes to load the film in, they can be missing, and hard to find.

Not sure if you know the world famous sub club?
Here is a treasure trove of fun stuff, and then some: http://www.subclub.org/shop/16mm.htm

Cholentpot · May 19, 2019

jnantz said:
Mamiya 16mm's are beautiful but make sure you have the cassettes to load the film in, they can be missing, and hard to find.

Not sure if you know the world famous sub club?
Here is a treasure trove of fun stuff, and then some: http://www.subclub.org/shop/16mm.htm

I've been poking around. Too many options! I need help from people who've used and owned these things. I'm a youngn', I'm starting from zero over here.

spark · May 19, 2019

I took some great pix with a Minolta 16QT back in the day. The cassettes are still around and used 16mm single perf movie film. Although these cameras used a fat PX30 3 volt battery, a common 2032 lithium cell will fit with a shin or two. There are also some Russian cameras that can use the same cassettes

summicron1 · May 19, 2019

I've used several -- the Mamiyas are fun but the film cassettes are hard to find -- that said, they're not impossible.

I can strongly recommend a Minolta 16-II -- fully mechanical, so no batteries, the early version has only 3 shutter speeds, the 16-II has a wider range. Both have an adjustable lens opening and a very good lens. Focus is fixed, but there are add-on focus lenses for close-up and infinity, although the lens is so short that focus is pretty much infinite.

The cassettes are more common and easily reloaded as well. The camera itself collapses when not in use and is very compact and sturdy.

Minolta made others, but the 16-II is, in my view, the most usable.

Cholentpot · May 19, 2019

summicron1 said:
I've used several -- the Mamiyas are fun but the film cassettes are hard to find -- that said, they're not impossible.

I can strongly recommend a Minolta 16-II -- fully mechanical, so no batteries, the early version has only 3 shutter speeds, the 16-II has a wider range. Both have an adjustable lens opening and a very good lens. Focus is fixed, but there are add-on focus lenses for close-up and infinity, although the lens is so short that focus is pretty much infinite.

The cassettes are more common and easily reloaded as well. The camera itself collapses when not in use and is very compact and sturdy.

Minolta made others, but the 16-II is, in my view, the most usable.

How does the Minolta 16 P stack up? I see some on the eBay that have the cassette included. Don't see any for the 16II

spark · May 19, 2019

I think all the Minolta 16’s used the same cassettes

ic-racer · May 19, 2019

The Minoltas are nice. Do you want fully manual or semi-automatic? Do you want plastic or metal? They are not very expensive you can start a small collection and see which ones work best for you. My all time favorite is the 16QT. It only has 2 shutter speeds, but it has focusing (with viewfinder markers) and a built in two-light meter and adjustable f-stops. It also has the largest image size available when using single-perf film.

Cholentpot · May 19, 2019

ic-racer said:
The Minoltas are nice. Do you want fully manual or semi-automatic? Do you want plastic or metal? They are not very expensive you can start a small collection and see which ones work best for you. My all time favorite is the 16QT. It only has 2 shutter speeds, but it has focusing (with viewfinder markers) and a built in two-light meter and adjustable f-stops. It also has the largest image size available when using single-perf film.

Manual all metal would be my first choice. Manual plastic would be second. The QT sure looks sweet though.

I think what's holding me off of some on the 'ol Ebay is the lack of cassettes. I gotta find a source. Also do these work with non perf film? Otherwise I guess I'd have to find a single perf source to roll myself.

ProgramPlus · May 20, 2019

I recently went a bit nuts on EBay and ended up with several Minolta 16-II mostly because they were so cheap. Got one for $5 and one for $1 plus reasonable shipping. Cassettes were a problem though. It took a while to get some cheap enough. Finally ended up with two with SUPER expired film. Plan was to reload with film I cut down for my Pentax 110. It appears to me that non perforated film will work.

Not sure how much I’ll use it though. Even though I finally got a set with all the add on lenses I think I’ll find it frustrating to have to adjust my distance and/or changing lenses to get the focus right. I also don’t trust myself yet to get the exposure right.

Cholentpot · May 20, 2019

ProgramPlus said:
I recently went a bit nuts on EBay and ended up with several Minolta 16-II mostly because they were so cheap. Got one for $5 and one for $1 plus reasonable shipping. Cassettes were a problem though. It took a while to get some cheap enough. Finally ended up with two with SUPER expired film. Plan was to reload with film I cut down for my Pentax 110. It appears to me that non perforated film will work.

Not sure how much I’ll use it though. Even though I finally got a set with all the add on lenses I think I’ll find it frustrating to have to adjust my distance and/or changing lenses to get the focus right. I also don’t trust myself yet to get the exposure right.

You have some ebayfu there. I'm seeing them at $20+. I guess I should go for a cheaper one that comes with a cassette and move on from there.

Cholentpot · May 20, 2019

Well, I went ahead and picked up a Minolta 16, not sure if version I or II that came with a cassette. I also picked up 100 feet of 16mm microfilm. I guess I'll see how it goes, looks like another rabbit hole of fun to jump down.

ic-racer · May 20, 2019

In the Minolta cartridges you can use non-perf film that you cut from a roll of 35mm. I also use Kodak 16mm Negative film. If you measure out about 2 feet that gives 18 exposures (in the QT).

mshchem · May 21, 2019

Cholentpot said:
Well, I went ahead and picked up a Minolta 16, not sure if version I or II that came with a cassette. I also picked up 100 feet of 16mm microfilm. I guess I'll see how it goes, looks like another rabbit hole of fun to jump down.

Don't make matters worse by buying anything else .
It's like my Fiat phase, I should have had my head examined. I've had several phases. On second thought you could make Claymation movies, one frame at a time. Reversal process. You would need to lay the projector on it's side like the old Imax 70mm.
Hell yes!

I seemed to have strayed from my original point. Just say no!

Cholentpot · May 21, 2019

ic-racer said:
In the Minolta cartridges you can use non-perf film that you cut from a roll of 35mm. I also use Kodak 16mm Negative film. If you measure out about 2 feet that gives 18 exposures (in the QT).

Can you suggest a practical way of slitting film? Also, what Kodak 16mm film stocks do you use? I don't mind having perfs in my photos. I just don't want to buy 400 feet of something.

mshchem said:
Don't make matters worse by buying anything else .
It's like my Fiat phase, I should have had my head examined. I've had several phases. On second thought you could make Claymation movies, one frame at a time. Reversal process. You would need to lay the projector on it's side like the old Imax 70mm.
Hell yes!

I seemed to have strayed from my original point. Just say no!

Well, a Fiat is gonna cost a little more than these little 'obsolete' cameras. If I'm gonna do a Wallace and Grommet I'd get a motion picture camera I think...

ProgramPlus · May 21, 2019

If you do a search on film “slitters” or “splitters” there are posts or threads where people show you how they made one. If you are handy with wood etc it’s pretty easy. There’s also a site that sells splitters or sells precut film. I think it goes by the name “goat hill.” There are film splitters for sale on Etsy for $50.
I made one that works pretty well so I can load film for my Pentax 110. Cutting a 36 exposure roll of 35mm then cutting it in half lengthwise you can get 2 pretty good rolls of film for the 110 or 16mm.

Cholentpot · May 21, 2019

ProgramPlus said:
If you do a search on film “slitters” or “splitters” there are posts or threads where people show you how they made one. If you are handy with wood etc it’s pretty easy. There’s also a site that sells splitters or sells precut film. I think it goes by the name “goat hill.” There are film splitters for sale on Etsy for $50.
I made one that works pretty well so I can load film for my Pentax 110. Cutting a 36 exposure roll of 35mm then cutting it in half lengthwise you can get 2 pretty good rolls of film for the 110 or 16mm.

Thanks!

I spent a few hours doing research and clanging away in the shoppe. I built a slitter, I just need some 110 cassettes to test it with and I'm good to go.

It seems to fit on the Yankee reel so I'm going to call it close enough. I don't know how much leeway I have with the size though. I will say that once I've done this I can knock one together much quicker next time.

mshchem · May 21, 2019

Cholentpot said:
Can you suggest a practical way of slitting film? Also, what Kodak 16mm film stocks do you use? I don't mind having perfs in my photos. I just don't want to buy 400 feet of something.

Well, a Fiat is gonna cost a little more than these little 'obsolete' cameras. If I'm gonna do a Wallace and Grommet I'd get a motion picture camera I think...

I traded a worn out chipper shredder for a running 1980 Fiat X 1/9. A black hole of wasted time. Just like these little cameras. Heed my hard won warning

Cholentpot · May 21, 2019

mshchem said:
I traded a worn out chipper shredder for a running 1980 Fiat X 1/9. A black hole of wasted time. Just like these little cameras. Heed my hard won warning

I'm daily driving a 1990 Corolla. Some things just keep working.

I'll invest the time and if it fails and doesn't work out I'll have learned something and tried another avenue of photography. All the more experience in the never ending growth as a photographer.

ProgramPlus · May 21, 2019

Cholentpot said:
Thanks!

I spent a few hours doing research and clanging away in the shoppe. I built a slitter, I just need some 110 cassettes to test it with and I'm good to go.

It seems to fit on the Yankee reel so I'm going to call it close enough. I don't know how much leeway I have with the size though. I will say that once I've done this I can knock one together much quicker next time.

That was fast. Good work! I saw that design but I guess I didn't look into it enough because I really never figured out the benefit of building it off of an old camera chassis. Mine is another common design which is essentially blocks of wood bolted together which hold two razor blades.

summicron1 · May 21, 2019

Cholentpot said:
How does the Minolta 16 P stack up? I see some on the eBay that have the cassette included. Don't see any for the 16II

all minolta 16s use the same film cassette. The 16P is a much simpler camera, sort of a box camera. I mean -- it works, it takes pictures.

Personal prejudice, my first was a 16II and I shot pics all over europe with it in 1971, when film was readily available everywhere.

The MG would be my next choice -- manual shutter and doesn't need a battery. The QT and some of that ilk were fancier and needed batteries. They were typically sold in little fancy felt-lined gift boxes with all sort of accessories.

The 16II was a simpler camera, usually sold with a simple leather case and a UV filter.

A lot of the cameras for sale these days have a cassette in them just because the last owner never finished the roll and left it ... if you are careful and peel the tape off the sides you can reload one easily.

slitting film is easy - you can buy slitters, i recall years ago making one out of a coupla blocks of wood, some felt, a hinge and a couple of razor blades -- the width of the film isn't as critical as you might think.

ciniframe · May 22, 2019

The easiest slitter to build is a ‘pull through’ design. I’ve built mine out of hobby plywood and double edged razor blades. That way flipping the blades gives you 4 new cutting edges as they grow dull.

I like my Minolta 16II camera’s but because of the lenses focus being fixed at 2.5M you just about have to find the auxiliary 3 lens set. This has lenses labeled as # 0, #1, and #2. The ‘0’ lens is a -.25 diopter and brings focus out to 10M. (about 33ft.) close enough to infinity as makes no difference. The #1 close up lens sets focus to about 2.3 ft and the #2 lens to about 1.5 ft.

The Mamiya 16 has a focusing lens but as noted the cartridges are really hard to find and expensive when you do. I have a couple of them and the shutter mechanics are not too good on either. Even after cleaning the shutter timing on both mine are problematic.

ciniframe · May 22, 2019

I’ve been messing about with 16mm now for about 25 years. If you like to tinker around with cameras then have at it. Through the years I’ve made modifications to my Minolta 16II camera’s that have made them easier to use and even made accessories to allow me to adapt series V filters and other accessories to the cameras. Thing is, I love working on and modifying cameras, I have more fun with that than actually taking pictures. There are all kinds of tricks. With the wife’s sewing machine and 120 film negative holders you can sew two stitches to make 3 holders for 16mm out of each 65mm sleeve. I’d write a book but #1, I cannot write well enough ( as anyone can see from my posts). And #2......well I’m just too lazy.

MattKing · May 22, 2019

mshchem said:
I traded a worn out chipper shredder for a running 1980 Fiat X 1/9. A black hole of wasted time. Just like these little cameras. Heed my hard won warning

Cholentpot said:
I'm daily driving a 1990 Corolla. Some things just keep working.

Our 2014 Fiat 500 has been absolutely trouble free, has almost 100,000 km on it, and is arguably the best car that either of us have ever owned - certainly it is the most fun to drive.
As the saying goes, YMMV.

Cholentpot · May 22, 2019

ProgramPlus said:
That was fast. Good work! I saw that design but I guess I didn't look into it enough because I really never figured out the benefit of building it off of an old camera chassis. Mine is another common design which is essentially blocks of wood bolted together which hold two razor blades.

Keeps the 35mm canister in place without trouble. Seems to work, haven't tried in camera yet though but it does roll onto the Yankee reel after some work.

summicron1 said:
all minolta 16s use the same film cassette. The 16P is a much simpler camera, sort of a box camera. I mean -- it works, it takes pictures.

Personal prejudice, my first was a 16II and I shot pics all over europe with it in 1971, when film was readily available everywhere.

The MG would be my next choice -- manual shutter and doesn't need a battery. The QT and some of that ilk were fancier and needed batteries. They were typically sold in little fancy felt-lined gift boxes with all sort of accessories.

The 16II was a simpler camera, usually sold with a simple leather case and a UV filter.

A lot of the cameras for sale these days have a cassette in them just because the last owner never finished the roll and left it ... if you are careful and peel the tape off the sides you can reload one easily.

slitting film is easy - you can buy slitters, i recall years ago making one out of a coupla blocks of wood, some felt, a hinge and a couple of razor blades -- the width of the film isn't as critical as you might think.

I've seen a few MGs and they look pretty sleek. I'll keep an eye out for one. It's good to know that width isn't so critical. I might be off by a hair or so.

ciniframe said:
The easiest slitter to build is a ‘pull through’ design. I’ve built mine out of hobby plywood and double edged razor blades. That way flipping the blades gives you 4 new cutting edges as they grow dull.

I like my Minolta 16II camera’s but because of the lenses focus being fixed at 2.5M you just about have to find the auxiliary 3 lens set. This has lenses labeled as # 0, #1, and #2. The ‘0’ lens is a -.25 diopter and brings focus out to 10M. (about 33ft.) close enough to infinity as makes no difference. The #1 close up lens sets focus to about 2.3 ft and the #2 lens to about 1.5 ft.

The Mamiya 16 has a focusing lens but as noted the cartridges are really hard to find and expensive when you do. I have a couple of them and the shutter mechanics are not too good on either. Even after cleaning the shutter timing on both mine are problematic.

You used shaving razors or regular blades? Shaving razors seemed too flexible and bendy, I went with snap off's instead. The camera I bought off of Ebay showed a cartridge in the photo, but you never know, sometimes people 'forget' to send things shown in the photo. I wonder if anyone 3D prints the carts, and 110 carts.

ciniframe said:
I’ve been messing about with 16mm now for about 25 years. If you like to tinker around with cameras then have at it. Through the years I’ve made modifications to my Minolta 16II camera’s that have made them easier to use and even made accessories to allow me to adapt series V filters and other accessories to the cameras. Thing is, I love working on and modifying cameras, I have more fun with that than actually taking pictures. There are all kinds of tricks. With the wife’s sewing machine and 120 film negative holders you can sew two stitches to make 3 holders for 16mm out of each 65mm sleeve. I’d write a book but #1, I cannot write well enough ( as anyone can see from my posts). And #2......well I’m just too lazy.

I'm on the fence, I love taking photos but I do like messing around with the cameras too. It's all fresh to me, having grown up in the 90's I didn't have access to all this stuff. It was relatively expensive, now it's peanuts and there are loads of resources online walking you through the cameras and film formats. No more educated guesses.

MattKing said:
Our 2014 Fiat 500 has been absolutely trouble free, has almost 100,000 km on it, and is arguably the best car that either of us have ever owned - certainly it is the most fun to drive.
As the saying goes, YMMV.

I lucked out, less than 60k on mine when I bought it a year ago. Needed a new starter and battery, otherwise I'll drive it till it rusts.

Help Choosing a Sub-Compact 16mm Camera

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