Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

[Andrew O'Neill]

Did the original Ferrania ever manufacture IR film in any format? And if so, does the formula survive in the available archives as a possible future option, should market conditions ever warrant its resurrection?



Ken

And if the answer is no, would Ferrania consider making an IR film?

 

[StoneNYC]

And if the answer is no, would Ferrania consider making an IR film?

Doubtful, even Ilford and rollei have said the cost of finding the right supplies that work properly to create a stronger IR like HIE/EFKEIR820 is just to high and hard to source.

But I would be happy if they could.

 

[1337]

Moderators,

We should rename this thread: "Bashing APS for fun and profit"

You are damn right :/

Hopefully we will see more of this in the future >

 

[Ten301]

Defending APS

Moderators,

We should rename this thread: "Bashing APS for fun and profit"

I think we can all agree that APS was a marketing disaster, the format the victim of high and confusing processing costs compared to 35mm and digital on the immediate horizon. However, if you look at the format in a vacuum, it was actually pretty cool. I have photos from my APS SLRs that can rival the quality of 35mm, and the mid-roll change feature was ingenious and very practical. Perhaps PE and others can correct me if I'm misinformed, but work on APS emulsions by Kodak and Fuji resulted in some dramatic improvements in 35mm emulsions. I still have 40 exp. rolls of Fuji F100 APS (not the D100) in the freezer, and the stuff was dead-sharp and virtually grainless. I read somewhere that it was the same emulsion technology used for the first generation of Reala in 35mm. Kodak's Advantix 100 was very fine-grained and sharp as well. Perhaps the same technology was used in their Royal Gold 100 film at the time? My only problem with APS was the first generation of Kodak Advantix 400; it almost looked as though it had a 'veil' over the images, very grainy and unsharp. In that speed, Fuji's offering was initially much better, but Kodak did catch-up when they improved the film.

APS gets a bad rap; it seems to be the format that many love to hate. Maybe it was the wrong format, created for the wrong reasons at the wrong time. And yes, maybe the marketing sucked. But the format itself could produce stunning images with good cameras and lenses. As for demand, it would probably be similar to any defunct format. The cameras are out there and they're hungry. It would be great if at least one manufacturer could feed them.

 

[cmacd123]

Doubtful, even Ilford and rollei have said the cost of finding the right supplies that work properly to create a stronger IR like HIE/EFKEIR820 is just to high and hard to source.

Not to mention being very unstable resulting in Batches with very short shelve lives.

Also to ad to the fun, most modern film factories have all sorts of fancy equipment to find defects so they don't end up in the finished products, most of of which are dependent on using infrared light. Heck, even my Canon EOS cameras use IR to advance the film and the older manuals warned against using them to shoot IR film. I did not have a problem with AVIPHOT 80S, but the Canon manual shows very funky fogging with Kodak IR.

 

[Ten301]

You are damn right :/

Hopefully we will see more of this in the future >

I used Ferrania FG200 APS film years ago, Target's house brand, made by Ferrania. More grain than Kodak or Fuji, but sharp and good color.

 

[StoneNYC]

Not to mention being very unstable resulting in Batches with very short shelve lives.

Also to ad to the fun, most modern film factories have all sorts of fancy equipment to find defects so they don't end up in the finished products, most of of which are dependent on using infrared light. Heck, even my Canon EOS cameras use IR to advance the film and the older manuals warned against using them to shoot IR film. I did not have a problem with AVIPHOT 80S, but the Canon manual shows very funky fogging with Kodak IR.

Well I would love to have more IR in the 820 range after my stash disappears.

 

[Nzoomed]

I think we can all agree that APS was a marketing disaster, the format the victim of high and confusing processing costs compared to 35mm and digital on the immediate horizon. However, if you look at the format in a vacuum, it was actually a pretty cool. I have photos from my APS SLRs that can rival the quality of 35mm, and the mid-roll change feature was ingenious and very practical. Perhaps PE and others can correct me if I'm misinformed, but work on APS emulsions by Kodak and Fuji resulted in some dramatic improvements in 35mm emulsions. I still have 40 exp. rolls of Fuji F100 APS (not the D100) in the freezer, and the stuff was dead-sharp and virtually grainless. I read somewhere that it was the same emulsion technology used for the first generation of Reala in 35mm. Kodak's Advantix 100 was very fine-grained and sharp as well. Perhaps the same technology was used in their Royal Gold 100 film at the time? My only problem with APS was the first generation of Kodak Advantix 400; it almost looked as though it had a 'veil' over the images, very grainy and unsharp. In that speed, Fuji's offering was initially much better, but Kodak did catch-up when they improved the film.

APS gets a bad rap; it seems to be the format that many love to hate. Maybe it was the wrong format, created for the wrong reasons at the wrong time. And yes, maybe the marketing sucked. But the format itself could produce stunning images with good cameras and lenses. As for demand, it would probably be similar to any defunct format. The cameras are out there and they're hungry. It would be great if at least one manufacturer could feed them.

Yes i agree.
Well there must be more APS cameras around than 126 cameras surely.
However maybe 126 will be more popular because of the "Instagram" effect? IDK. But im dead keen on shooting 126 again, there must have been plenty of people shooting the stuff for Ferrania tp produce 126 right up to 2010!

Anyway, as far as APS goes, im not saying ferrania should produce it, but if they do have the conversion equipment, it would be silly not to save it and put it somewhere safe in storage if the time ever arose that it was ever needed, for that matter someone else may want to say "yes we want to sell APS film" and convert it themselves from bulk stock from Ferrania, Fuji or AGFA etc and purchase if from Ferrania's hands if Film Ferrania dont end up using it.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

**Any plans for Ferrania black and white IR film (roll, sheet) in the future? Many people use it (including me) and the current selection is very poor.**
I'll keep asking...

Hi Andrew,

We have no immediate plans of entering the black and white market. It doesn't mean we won't, it just means we have yet to develop coherent plans beyond making color film.

We are being careful to take small bites and chew slowly.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Yes i agree.
Well there must be more APS cameras around than 126 cameras surely.
However maybe 126 will be more popular because of the "Instagram" effect? IDK. But im dead keen on shooting 126 again, there must have been plenty of people shooting the stuff for Ferrania tp produce 126 right up to 2010!

Anyway, as far as APS goes, im not saying ferrania should produce it, but if they do have the conversion equipment, it would be silly not to save it and put it somewhere safe in storage if the time ever arose that it was ever needed, for that matter someone else may want to say "yes we want to sell APS film" and convert it themselves from bulk stock from Ferrania, Fuji or AGFA etc and purchase if from Ferrania's hands if Film Ferrania dont end up using it.

I will hopefully put this mini-thread to rest by saying that it is highly unlikely that FILM Ferrania will make new APS film. It is only slightly more likely that we will make 126 film - and that's mostly because it's just plain-old 35mm film in a different cartridge.

We don't hate APS. It had some amazing features that were under-marketed and under-utilized by camera makers, which is tragic on some level and worthy of lament (perhaps on its own thread?).

But it never really caught on in a big way, then its life was cut short by the introduction of digital capture. And also the lab problems that were mentioned by someone earlier.

So although we generally have a "never say never" attitude about the potential to resurrect old formats, I think it's pretty safe to say that APS is all the way down at the bottom of the list. Like, so far down that it's dangling by the S.

 

[Nzoomed]

I will hopefully put this mini-thread to rest by saying that it is highly unlikely that FILM Ferrania will make new APS film. It is only slightly more likely that we will make 126 film - and that's mostly because it's just plain-old 35mm film in a different cartridge.

We don't hate APS. It had some amazing features that were under-marketed and under-utilized by camera makers, which is tragic on some level and worthy of lament (perhaps on its own thread?).

But it never really caught on in a big way, then its life was cut short by the introduction of digital capture. And also the lab problems that were mentioned by someone earlier.

So although we generally have a "never say never" attitude about the potential to resurrect old formats, I think it's pretty safe to say that APS is all the way down at the bottom of the list. Like, so far down that it's dangling by the S.

Yes, i would agree.
35mm is very much more appealing to me than APS, but i think your "never say never" attitude is good.
To reintroduce any format, obviously you would need to conduct market research, and there would have to be significant interest/demand to produce APS. I for one would not be bothered the slightest if we never saw APS again.

Film Ferrania is still in its infancy we can all agree, so Im not expecting you to introduce every format imaginable or any others straight away for that matter either.

Lomography has reintroduced 110, so i dont think 126 should be ruled out, in fact it would not surprise me if lomography reintroduced 126 in the future. I very much would love to shoot 126 format and take photos that were reminiscent of those my father shot in the 70's well before i was born.

And as ive mentioned earlier, it may be better to let other companies such as lomography to produce such formats themselves if they were open to the idea, they buy film stock from AGFA and convert it to 110 under their own brand. If Film Ferrania was happy to supply bulk rolls to lomography for conversion, i would be more than happy to buy it from them if it meant i was able to buy 126, 110 etc than not to have any 126 film at all if you can see where im coming from.

Anyway i just like talking about this because im so passionate about people being to shoot film in as many cameras as possible, but i do understand the reality that not everything will be possible, so im certainly not expecting every film format ever made to once more be available.

I just cant wait to shoot some Film Ferrania next year!
If any of the Ferrania team is reading, you are doing an excellent job and i know your probably all heads down, so keep up the good work, im just happy to see another E6 offering to the market, and if all i ever saw produced from Film Ferrania was the E6 formats that you have offered in the kickstarter promo, well i still would be very happy with that

 

[septim]

I didn't see anyone else asking about this in the thread here, so I'll go out on a limb and ask; Will Ferrania ever produce, or have produced for them mini-lab materials such as envelopes that a lot of consumer (and I'm guessing pro?) level labs use(d) to deliver prints to the end customer?

 

[ME Super]

I just cant wait to shoot some Film Ferrania next year!
If any of the Ferrania team is reading, you are doing an excellent job and i know your probably all heads down, so keep up the good work, im just happy to see another E6 offering to the market, and if all i ever saw produced from Film Ferrania was the E6 formats that you have offered in the kickstarter promo, well i still would be very happy with that

+1000000

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I didn't see anyone else asking about this in the thread here, so I'll go out on a limb and ask; Will Ferrania ever produce, or have produced for them mini-lab materials such as envelopes that a lot of consumer (and I'm guessing pro?) level labs use(d) to deliver prints to the end customer?

In the past, Ferrania made beautiful envelopes for labs - we plan to do the same.

Here are some googled images: http://goo.gl/TLSP6m

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Hi Andrew,

We have no immediate plans of entering the black and white market. It doesn't mean we won't, it just means we have yet to develop coherent plans beyond making color film.

We are being careful to take small bites and chew slowly.

Thank you!

 

[TheToadMen]

In the past, Ferrania made beautiful envelopes for labs - we plan to do the same.

Here are some googled images: http://goo.gl/TLSP6m

Ferrania film tins and free pinhole camera included!!

 

[Sirius Glass]

In the past, Ferrania made beautiful envelopes for labs - we plan to do the same.

Here are some googled images: http://goo.gl/TLSP6m

Those are mighty fine looking envelopes!

 

[Nzoomed]

In the past, Ferrania made beautiful envelopes for labs - we plan to do the same.

Here are some googled images: http://goo.gl/TLSP6m

Thats awesome!
On a side note i saw this image in the results http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMTEy/z/dE0AAOSwq7JUBd1C/$_35.JPG
I dont know much about the TENSI brand, but i had found an old roll of this film some time back in an antique shop and i believe that this company was bought by Ferrania back in the early days, i would be interested to know if anyone from Film Ferrania knows about this brand, and if Ferrania used any of their emulsions after the takeover.

 

[LJH]

Given the format restriction (8x10"), is it possible to do panoramic/banquet formats (specifically 7x17 and 8x20 inch). These are all narrower or equal to these constraints on the thinnest side.

Also, is 4x10" a possibility?

Bump.

 

[Sotiris Tsernoglou]

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Nzoomed]

And BTW Dave...
I would be more than happy to contribute to any future kickstarters for introducing any new formats of film, e.g funding for getting the moulds made for 126 cartridges etc.

 

[angusparkengusparker]

+1 for sheet film asap!

4x5, whole-plate and 8x10 would be a good start...

RR

+1 for 4x5 and 8x10 formats, FujifilmUS no longer distributing Velvia 50 in USA. Writing on the wall for E6 in sheet sizes. I expect there would be a market in these sizes for your film. Certainly if you run a pre-order batch similar to Ilford ULF special orders - you will know the volume demand.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Xmas]

+1 for 4x5 and 8x10 formats, FujifilmUS no longer distributing Velvia 50 in USA. Writing on the wall for E6 in sheet sizes. I expect there would be a market in these sizes for your film. Certainly if you run a pre-order batch similar to Ilford ULF special orders - you will know the volume demand.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The order size and price are related the 5222 in 4x5 special order failed on number of customers... There is no mono in 220 cause no perceived demand... ie insufficient demand.

But Lomo have restocked 110 E6 film cartridges to sell cameras musta made a lotta cameras. Fancy a plastic 8x10?

 

[Nzoomed]

I just got an email from kickstarter asking for my address to ship the rewards! I cant wait!
I expect this means that they are sending out the postcards soon.

 

[cuthbert]

Hi Andrew,

We have no immediate plans of entering the black and white market. It doesn't mean we won't, it just means we have yet to develop coherent plans beyond making color film.

We are being careful to take small bites and chew slowly.

What about a C-41 B&W like the Kodak BW400CN? It's one of my favourite films, but unfortunately it's not produced anymore and they are running out of stock.