Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

[Xmas]

Been lurking in this thread and still hadn't chimed in. In any case, I'm glad to see Dave and Ferrania around here.
The possible future high speed slide films seem great, but still, the ISO100 iteration is the first one that has to come.


It's something that should be acknowledged even before the project started. Ferrania didn't have the R&D and tech that Kodak or Fuji have, having both put a huge amount of resources while fighting for the top. While not technically top, I think Ferrania will come up with a nice, classic Slide film.
But it is the effort that they are putting, together with the consolidation into the market and their classic products that should want us to support them.
That, or somehow bringing some ektachrome formulas, and quite some bucks for R&D over to Italy

Kodak & Fuji had large turnovers and only spent small % in R&D, volume has gone, thing of past
Ferranni E6 film might well be best next year.
Kodak would want real $ for IPR. They are selling things to survive.
Lots of E6 people will have big fridges full of yellow and green boxes.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Since you guys will have a very flexible production line, is it possible to contract with other film producers? The reason I ask is, obviously at some point the large scale of someone like Fuji will make it almost impossible for them to continue their line of E-6, but would it benefit you guys to also have contracts from someone like them to produce smaller batches of their film? Similar to how Ilford produce batches of other manufactures black-and-white films? And the bigger question, does your machine have the capabilities to do that if you were to approach fuji about such a proposal? (Or the other way around).

In an effort to keep the speculations productive and grounded in some level of reality, I will simply point out that it's probably best to keep names like Kodak, Fuji or Ilford out of the questions. What they do, or plan to do, is their business, and I cannot speak to their intentions.

As I've said before, we hope to one day resume Old Ferrania's long-standing position as an OEM. Keyword "hope".

 

[Nzoomed]

All i will say is if i saw a box of Kodak E100g that said "Made in Italy" in my camera shop, it would be a dream come true, even if it didnt behave 100% as the original film.
Anyway, if competitors approached Ferrania on such a proposal, that would say alot.
I would imagine that inoviscoat would have been approached by now if Kodak/Fuji were looking at this.

 

[Xmas]

All i will say is if i saw a box of Kodak E100g that said "Made in Italy" in my camera shop, it would be a dream come true, even if it didnt behave 100% as the original film.
Anyway, if competitors approached Ferrania on such a proposal, that would say alot.
I would imagine that inoviscoat would have been approached by now if Kodak/Fuji were looking at this.

If it did then it would probably say made in EU like the new agfa boxes...

But Kodak moved production to UK Harrow cause the volume needed justified the start up costs. The other case now applies volume prediction off bottom of spreadsheet, more profit stopping.

They stopped film production at Harrow 2005, more profit stopping.

The staff that moved production gone from Rochester the line 4 staff gone from Harrow.

The local lomo shop had a modern c41 lab but did not offer fast turnaround they sold the lab and closed the shop. More profit.

 

[pdeeh]

In an effort to keep the speculations productive and grounded in some level of reality,.

Good luck with that round these parts ...

 

[StoneNYC]

In an effort to keep the speculations productive and grounded in some level of reality, I will simply point out that it's probably best to keep names like Kodak, Fuji or Ilford out of the questions. What they do, or plan to do, is their business, and I cannot speak to their intentions.

As I've said before, we hope to one day resume Old Ferrania's long-standing position as an OEM. Keyword "hope".

Thanks, it was more of a "is the machinery capable?" Than "are you going to do it?" kind of question, I think you subtly answered that in a way.

I get it.

Also, I know that we shouldn't put the cart before the horse, I was just sort of thinking about it and wanted to mention it was something I wondered if you could do. Thanks.

 

[PKM-25]

APUG users are obviously far more technically minded and you guys seem to want to know details that even we will not know until real film is produced, tested, subjected to many horrors in the lab, and put into (old) cameras and taken out into the world.

Dave,

The technical aspect of photography is what lead to film's undoing while the emotional content aspect is what is leading the niche rebirth. The image quality I get from my iPhone 6 can easily give me great prints with key technical anchor points up to 20x30". But that is not what I strive for, these technical mile markers and neither do any of the really talented photographers I know...

Obviously APUG is but one place to get the word out about your films and due to several factors, if I were in your shoes I would put at least as much energy if not more into other online presence over this one in particular. APUG loves to talk but not walk if you know what I mean...

But I am sure you know this and will reach out beyond these pages of erosive speculation to partner with the many talented photographers in the world who will gladly showcase your products with flat out great imagery. When it comes right down to the nuts and bolts of it, that is what the photography world wants to see, stunningly seen and shot photography that makes you, your products and the noble pursuit of film photography it self worth putting the time into.

Feel free to PM me and I will give you my contact info, I will be on the road for a month producing new work starting tomorrow and won't be on here much. And keep up the good work, take your time and lead the charge in using innovative and emotionally driven frameworks to engage people with film. I will be *shooting* the film you send me, not testing it.

 

[railwayman3]

. I will be *shooting* the film you send me, not testing it.

One of the most sensible sentences in this whole thread !

 

[Henning Serger]

I didnt think the impossible project used negative films? All that instant film is a positive image is it not?

Negative film is used, just have a second look at the video I've posted above.
Here it is also explained:
http://vimeo.com/100712215

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Hello Ricardo,

The Impossible integral film packs still need a negative of some sort.

The "new" company is already 5 years old and as Henning said is an off-shot of the former Leverkusen plant.
It has been said InovisCoat aren't particularly interested in the consumer photo market: that was something they did when they were "part" of Agfaphoto and rather don't want to come back to it.

that was at their beginning. They first expected to make more business in fields outside photography, like pharmaceutics, but that did not work as expected.
So now their main business is indeed production of traditional silver-halide photographic materials, both colour and BW.

They are happy to do contract coatings though. I.e. you pay the money, they do the film for you.

Correct. You can see some of their partners / customers as references on their website.

The name of the company should be self evident: it is about maximizing potential in all coating fields, not just photography.
That's the reason why you see "boutique" films flourishing, i.e. small batches of specific films and not exactly to be repeated again. See the cases of the Lomo Purple and Adox Colour Explosion.

That is not correct: Lomo Purple is a regular product.
And Adox Colour Implosion is a different story which has nothing to do with this topic.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

AFAIK there are no real good E6 films left for long exposures, they all go some weird colour (please tell me if I'm wrong, I'd love to know one that isn't)

Fortunately you are wrong : Provia 100F is the best colour film ever made for long exposures, awesome stuff. I am doing a lot of long exposure work / night city shots and I have always got outstanding results with this film.
Up to two minutes no exposure time / shutter speed compensation and no colour correction is needed.
Up to 4 minutes only a very little +1/3 shutter speed compensation and a 2,5G colour correction is recommended (depending on the subject often not needed).

Night shots with its wonderful colours and lights with a slide on a lighttable, or even better in projection: Absolutely unique! With no other medium you can capture the atmosphere in such a realistic, true-to-life and almost three dimensional way.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Hello Henning!

Thanks for the clarification.
I was under the impression, and Lomography makes it quite dificult to believe otherwise, that all the new Lomo films are small batches.
That sort of films with built in "effects" (i.e. lomo purple and revolog) aren't for me. They would be the last resort.

All the best

 

[Henning Serger]

I think the initial set of films they want to release, the 100 speed, the 400 speed, and the 800/3200 pushable film are what should come first. They've got good heads on their shoulders and are filling in the gaps in the market with this first set of plans. The 100 speed film obviously comes first, then work their way towards the higher speeds. If they decide the 800/3200 is not feasible, that's okay as long as they can bring back a 400 speed E-6 emulsion. All the rest of the talk in this thread about various things like a 640T film, or a color IR film, IMHO are nice-to-haves (I think I was one of the ones that brought up a 640T film, and for sure I mentioned color IR). First and foremost, we want Film Ferrania to be a healthy film company that can produce color (E-6/C-41) films, and it looks like they're well on their way.

+1.

Their focus on
- the market gaps in the colour reversal film market
- the priority on the biggest gaps
is absolutely the right strategy.

Now let us all work for a revival of colour reversal film. It is a unique medium, with lots of strengths no other photographic material can offer in this form.
It is an essential part of the photographic culture that not only deserves to be alive, but also deserves to be kicking .
In 2007 / 2008 all "experts" were convinced that instant film will be the first film type to be killed by digital.
Now instant film has a strong revival with increasing demand.
Let's make that happen for the other film types, too. Including reversal film.

First step here for appugers: Stop the counterproductive reversal film bashing of the last years. So much nonsense was told here.
Go out and shoot slide film. Now is the time to do. Show the amazing results to others.
Get further, younger photographers interested in it.
Everyone can and should do his part.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Dave,

The technical aspect of photography is what lead to film's undoing while the emotional content aspect is what is leading the niche rebirth. The image quality I get from my iPhone 6 can easily give me great prints with key technical anchor points up to 20x30". But that is not what I strive for, these technical mile markers and neither do any of the really talented photographers I know...

Obviously APUG is but one place to get the word out about your films and due to several factors, if I were in your shoes I would put at least as much energy if not more into other online presence over this one in particular. APUG loves to talk but not walk if you know what I mean...

But I am sure you know this and will reach out beyond these pages of erosive speculation to partner with the many talented photographers in the world who will gladly showcase your products with flat out great imagery. When it comes right down to the nuts and bolts of it, that is what the photography world wants to see, stunningly seen and shot photography that makes you, your products and the noble pursuit of film photography it self worth putting the time into.

Feel free to PM me and I will give you my contact info, I will be on the road for a month producing new work starting tomorrow and won't be on here much. And keep up the good work, take your time and lead the charge in using innovative and emotionally driven frameworks to engage people with film. I will be *shooting* the film you send me, not testing it.

Dan,

I realize that the conversations on APUG are very often far more colorful than you can bear to watch. Still, there is no need to be insulting to the membership here. And certainly no need to attempt to drive anyone away from here just because the topics of this particular conversation have once again rattled you.

Let's try to keep things positive, OK? It is not a sign of our inferiority to you that these conversations take place.

Such negativity is at best unhelpful. Film Ferrania's effort to begin again is one of the most exciting (and to be honest, unexpected) events to occur in the shrunken world of film photography in many years. It is fraught with both promise and peril. Both of which are fully on display in this conversation.

For years now you have demanded that the membership here stop speaking negatively about Kodak. Well, this conversation has been one of the fastest growing ever on APUG, and with almost no mention of Kodak at all. Isn't that what you have sought all along?



Ken

 

[flavio81]

I realize that the conversations on APUG are very often far more colorful than you can bear to watch. Still, there is no need to be insulting to the membership here. And certainly no need to attempt to drive anyone away from here just because the topics of this particular conversation have once again rattled you.

Let's try to keep things positive, OK?

+1

I also found PKM-25's post smug and offensive, needlesdly deriding the great ideas and contributions of other posters here. And contrary to his opinion, i find that this thread in APUG has the best discussion on the Ferrania project on the net, compared to the other photo forums.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Dan's a good guy. And I would never try to reign in his passion for photography. He is driven in that passion to a degree that can be remarkable. It's just that sometimes his expression of that passion here on APUG can be a bit overwhelming.

I envy his ability to spend a month on the road with his cameras and his vision. Many of us can't do that. I'm happy for him that he can. It will take a retirement for me before I can do similar.

Sometimes, for some people, it takes time away from APUG (and everything else online) to properly decompress and find balance. I too hope his month out with his cameras is fruitful.

Ken

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Back to the subject at hand, how can we now get more film photographers interested to try out transparency film?

:w00t:

Ken

 

[Nzoomed]

Negative film is used, just have a second look at the video I've posted above.
Here it is also explained:
http://vimeo.com/100712215

Best regards,
Henning

Ok that sounds like quite an unusual process.
So it makes a negative image on the base layer and then makes a contact print to the top layer of film?
From what i understand its a chemical reaction from the bottom negative image. This makes sense because i dont know how you could make an optical print from a negative in such a camera.

 

[railwayman3]

Dan's a good guy. And I would never try to reign in his passion for photography. He is driven in that passion to a degree that can be remarkable. It's just that sometimes his expression of that passion here on APUG can be a bit overwhelming.

I envy his ability to spend a month on the road with his cameras and his vision. Many of us can't do that. I'm happy for him that he can. It will take a retirement for me before I can do similar.

Sometimes, for some people, it takes time away from APUG (and everything else online) to properly decompress and find balance. I too hope his month out with his cameras is fruitful.

Ken

Just asking, but isn't Dan the same person who set up the "Kodachrome Project" website around 2009 when the film was announced as discontinued ?

And wasn't part of the project to produce a book of Kodachromes from his work up to Dec 2010 ? His last post, in response to enquiries about the book, was in August 2013, when it was supposedly near publication ? His Blog on 9th November 2013 (the latest Blog posting) says " I have been getting close to getting my book project done…finally. It has been more of an emotional blockade than a production one. The break from it was good but my time is up I gotta go to print."

(If I'm totally wrong, I'll gladly apologise and delete this post.)

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Same Dan, yes. And as for all of us at times, life often intrudes in ways unexpected, I'm sure. I'm a Kodachrome fan for life. It's the best thing Kodak ever did, and by far the most missed. So if he can reach the point of publishing, I'll still be anxious to see how that project turns out.

Ken

 

[AgX]

Ok that sounds like quite an unusual process.
So it makes a negative image on the base layer and then makes a contact print to the top layer of film?
From what i understand its a chemical reaction from the bottom negative image. This makes sense because i dont know how you could make an optical print from a negative in such a camera.

It is not an unusual process at all.
Just one of many diffusion processes. May it be silver-salt Diffusion or dye-diffusion.

 

[Nzoomed]

It is not an unusual process at all.
Just one of many diffusion processes. May it be silver-salt Diffusion or dye-diffusion.

Ok, maybe not, but obviously it is not done with C41 films and RA4 paper for example.

 

[Nzoomed]

Ive got another question for Dave, a little bit off topic, but still relevant to photography.
I dont know if you are aware about Kelvin Kittle's K-lab that has been salvaged in an attempt to process peoples remaining stashes of kodachrome.
If this project comes to fruition, would it be possible to manufacture the dye couplers and/or other chemicals required for him to process the film?
It would probably be a "one off" project to allow those who have kodachrome the chance to shoot what they have left.
Since these dye couplers share similar chemical compositions found in films, i dont think it would be impossible and all the chemical compositions are documented.

We would be able to start a kick starter to help fund the costs for you to produce the chemistry.
There is a film maker who hasnt been able to finish his space shuttle film because he didnt get all the films developed in time, so there would be a demand for Kodachrome processing if the chemistry can be made available.

Just a future thought anyway, Im not expecting to hear a yes, and i wouldnt expect you to do this while you are busy on other projects and getting your production up and running at the moment.

 

[madgardener]

Back to the subject at hand, how can we now get more film photographers interested to try out transparency film?

:w00t:

Ken

The answer to this is easy, unfortunately the solution is not. The answer is to lower the price of E-6 films. At $15 a roll, I have been forced to cut back on how much I buy. Even Agfa is rising fast. The solution however is not so easy. Ferrania might be able to provide competition and force the prices down some. Anyway, good luck Ferrania!

 

[flavio81]

The answer to this is easy, unfortunately the solution is not. The answer is to lower the price of E-6 films. At $15 a roll, I have been forced to cut back on how much I buy. Even Agfa is rising fast. The solution however is not so easy. Ferrania might be able to provide competition and force the prices down some. Anyway, good luck Ferrania!

... and not only the film is expensive but the processing as well.

I think that if Ferrania brings out an E6 film that has the same price as color negative emulsions, or the same price as a premium B&W film like Delta 100, that will be enough to be the catalyst to make amateurs and artists switch en masse. I would!! Right now, a roll of Provia 100F 120, processed, costs me $25.86 USD!