Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

[Nzoomed]

+1 vote for infrared Chrome! I never got to try color infrared, but would LOVE to!

Ive never played around with such film, but would be interesting.
What about infra red film that only shows heat patterns?
Ive seen film images similar to a thermal camera, and i dont know what type of film it was shot on, but a person in a dark room would show as the shape of the person ranging in colours from, yellow to orange and red. etc

 

[Chris Livsey]

Ive seen film images similar to a thermal camera, and i dont know what type of film it was shot on, but a person in a dark room would show as the shape of the person ranging in colours from, yellow to orange and red. etc

Those are computer generated false colours from a digital sensor.

 

[Nzoomed]

Those are computer generated false colours from a digital sensor.

But ive seen such photos in a book on film photography and it showed such images...

 

[StoneNYC]

Velvia 50 is something special. I never understood it until I shot a roll of it during a particularly colorful time of year (autumn, with the leaves changing colors). The inky blacks, and the saturation - perfect for that time of year. Those that clamored for Fuji to bring back Velvia (as Velvia 50 since they couldn't get all the ingredients for original Velvia, IIRC) because the 100 speed version of it was different were right.

That said, I like the Wittner Chrome version of Aviphot Chrome 200, Fuji's Provia 100F, and I'm sure I'll like Ferrania's 100 and 400 speed offerings. They'll have a captive market for sure with 400+ speed E-6 films.

I still can't find any info on "Whittner Chrome" as a film. I think you're making it up, LOL.

 

[StoneNYC]

Ive never played around with such film, but would be interesting.
What about infra red film that only shows heat patterns?
Ive seen film images similar to a thermal camera, and i dont know what type of film it was shot on, but a person in a dark room would show as the shape of the person ranging in colours from, yellow to orange and red. etc

Those are either false color OR they are Solarized during processing.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I still can't find any info on "Whittner Chrome" as a film. I think you're making it up, LOL.

Google might not be working for you: http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/katalog/04_filmm/35_filmm.php

 

[Nzoomed]

Those are either false color OR they are Solarized during processing.

OK, thats interesting to know.
I never realised that infra red film could capture a whole image like what im seeing on the flickr pages.
It appears these films must still capture visible light, as some things such as lakes and oceans still look blue.
Does anyone know who makes the stuff for lomography?
I didnt think any colour infra red was produced nowdays, Kodak and Fuji certainly dont sell the stuff.

I still can't find any info on "Whittner Chrome" as a film. I think you're making it up, LOL.

You have spelt it wrong, its "Wittner" chrome, and yes its a very real product, ive shot it myself.
Its still AGFA Aviphot chrome stock though, but you know that their source is guranteed free of any yellowing issues like some batches of digibase CR200 is known for.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Hello APUG users!

My name is Dave Bias and I'm the US Director for FILM Ferrania.

Thanks for introducing a large dose of realism in the discussion here!!

 

[Nzoomed]

Thanks for introducing a large dose of realism in the discussion here!!

+1

 

[ME Super]

I still can't find any info on "Whittner Chrome" as a film. I think you're making it up, LOL.

Here's a link: http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/katalog/04_filmm/kleinbild.php#3016. Google Chrome will translate the page to English. You might have to coax it by right-clicking the page and then selecting "Translate to English." It's real, I promise. Shot my son's 8th grade graduation photos on it. Right now it's the only reversal emulsion available in a speed faster than 100 without push-processing. That'll change though when Ferrania starts making Ferraniachrome 400 (for lack of a better name).

 

[trythis]

Not cheap bit they have some:
Dead Link Removed

 

[StoneNYC]

I would rather shoot FILMferrania chrome but thank you.

 

[flavio81]

+1. Make this, and I won't need a Tungsten-balanced emulsion - the 2 stop loss of the 80A filter will be made up for by the pushability of the 800 speed emulsion.

Actual speed of a daylight ISO 800 film under tungsten lighting conditions (and filter):

base ISO: 200
first push ISO 400
two-stop push ISO 800

Actual speed of a tungsten ISO 640 film under tungsten lighting conditions:

base ISO: 640
first push ISO 1250
two-stop push: ISO 2500 --> equivalent to a daylight film of ISO 10000 plus a filter...

A tungsten-balanced film of such high speed opens up a new world of photographic possibilities, particularly if available in 120 format.

 

[ME Super]

Actual speed of a tungsten ISO 640 film under tungsten lighting conditions:

base ISO: 640
first push ISO 1250
two-stop push: ISO 2500 --> equivalent to a daylight film of ISO 10000 plus a filter...

A tungsten-balanced film of such high speed opens up a new world of photographic possibilities, particularly if available in 120 format.

Agreed. But in order to get that 640-speed tungsten film, your fast blue layer better be fast. IDK how much faster, but two stops faster seems reasonable, since that's the filter factor of an 80A. It seems that a fast blue layer of ISO 10000 or faster would be incredibly difficult to make and not have tennis ball sized grain. We know Ferrania can do a 640T film, as they've done it in the past. The big questions are A: Market, and B: Cost. Faster than 640T, IMHO, may not be doable without the tennis ball sized grain in 35mm. In 120, grain size is less of an issue, but projectors and mounts are much more expensive for 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x7.

 

[StoneNYC]

You guys are all dreaming, let's get back to a realistically producible "high speed" film by FILMferrania, the chances of anything above 400 in E-6 that is also good enough for market is about as likely as Kodachrome coming back.

C'mon guys, let's give FILMferrania a fighting chance, let's get realistic and ask for things the majority of us will actually use regularly and in large enough quantities to support the company.

I'll tell FILMferrania my biggest thing is this, I LOVE Velvia100 in sheet film 4x5 and 8x10, this is my biggest use in E-6 (it used to be Velvia50 but they no longer import to the US).

Before I shot LF my biggest use was Velvia50 in 120.

I hardly ever used that in 35mm, not enough detail for landscapes in any print big enough to make me happy. (I'm persnickety).

My biggest use in Provia100f/Provia400X was models. I exclusively used Provia100f until I gave the 400 a chance and now I'm running through the last of that.

A (TRUELY RATED) 400+ speed film for people would be much more valuable and have no competition than a 100 speed film.

A film with a SLIGHTLY "retro" look but with semi accurate color would be much more valuable than an over the top retro. Something super accurate akin to Provia100f would only compete if similar and less price.

Attacking the need of a replacement for Provia400X seems the most likely strategy to succeed IMHO.

This is my way of working and thinking and obviously does not reflect all film users, but it's something to think about.

Also note the need for 400 speed is for indoor use with window light, so that color pallet and light source is something to take into account.

A tungsten based film, as nice as it sounds may be less necessary, as the market is moving from T based light bulbs to the new CF (compact fluorescent) bulbs which at least in the US are now REQUIRED over T based bulbs for manufacturers and T based bulbs are going to stop being made/sold except as specialty bulbs.

So the whole "we need T films for indoor shooting doesn't make sense going forward. (Unless the majority of other countries are still making T bulbs?)

Just a thought. Sure 800 daylight speed would be even better but I doubt that would be financially feasible to engineer with fine grain at this stage.

EDIT: Push comments... I don't shoot C-41 but I've seen many many comments that say that Portra400 pushes to 800 and even 1600 with better shadow detail and better grain than than Portra800 looks at box speed or pushed 1 stop. Given that is true, if Kodak can't even make a better 800 speed film than their 400 speed film, a smaller RnD company on a more difficult E-6 process probably won't be able to.

 

[flavio81]

You guys are all dreaming, let's get back to a realistically producible "high speed" film by FILMferrania

The ISO 640 tungsten film i'm discussing has already been produced for years by Ferrania. So it's a rather realistic proposition.

A tungsten based film, as nice as it sounds may be less necessary, as the market is moving from T based light bulbs to the new CF (compact fluorescent) bulbs which at least in the US are now REQUIRED over T based bulbs for manufacturers and T based bulbs are going to stop being made/sold except as specialty bulbs..

Note that most indoor and home lighting, including the CF bulbs that you mention, as well as the ubiquitous halogen lighting (ubiquitous at least here) is of "warm" color balance, which means that it will look best on tungsten-balanced film.

However, you are correct in mentioning that an alternative to Fuji 400X will be most likely to succeed. Perhaps the 800/3200 film Dave mentioned.

 

[Roger Cole]

They have also said they PLAN an 800 E6 film designed for successful pushing to 3200. Presumably this would be a daylight film and I don't know about the prospects of bringing back at 640T, but the prospects of "a faster than 400 E6 film" seem pretty darned likely considering they already said they plan to do it.

 

[Roger Cole]

Oh and CF are NOT "required." What is required is a certain level of energy efficiency and they manufacturers are already bring out other technology bulbs, including halogens, that meet the requirements.

I hate CFLs and will be glad to rid my house of all of them as alternatives become available.

 

[Xmas]

You guys are all dreaming, let's get back to a realistically producible "high speed" film by FILMferrania, the chances of anything above 400 in E-6 that is also good enough for market is about as likely as Kodachrome coming back.

C'mon guys, let's give FILMferrania a fighting chance, let's get realistic and ask for things the majority of us will actually use regularly and in large enough quantities to support the company.

I'll tell FILMferrania my biggest thing is this, I LOVE Velvia100 in sheet film 4x5 and 8x10, this is my biggest use in E-6 (it used to be Velvia50 but they no longer import to the US).

Before I shot LF my biggest use was Velvia50 in 120.

I hardly ever used that in 35mm, not enough detail for landscapes in any print big enough to make me happy. (I'm persnickety).

My biggest use in Provia100f/Provia400X was models. I exclusively used Provia100f until I gave the 400 a chance and now I'm running through the last of that.

A (TRUELY RATED) 400+ speed film for people would be much more valuable and have no competition than a 100 speed film.

A film with a SLIGHTLY "retro" look but with semi accurate color would be much more valuable than an over the top retro. Something super accurate akin to Provia100f would only compete if similar and less price.

Attacking the need of a replacement for Provia400X seems the most likely strategy to succeed IMHO.

This is my way of working and thinking and obviously does not reflect all film users, but it's something to think about.

Also note the need for 400 speed is for indoor use with window light, so that color pallet and light source is something to take into account.

A tungsten based film, as nice as it sounds may be less necessary, as the market is moving from T based light bulbs to the new CF (compact fluorescent) bulbs which at least in the US are now REQUIRED over T based bulbs for manufacturers and T based bulbs are going to stop being made/sold except as specialty bulbs.

So the whole "we need T films for indoor shooting doesn't make sense going forward. (Unless the majority of other countries are still making T bulbs?)

Just a thought. Sure 800 daylight speed would be even better but I doubt that would be financially feasible to engineer with fine grain at this stage.

EDIT: Push comments... I don't shoot C-41 but I've seen many many comments that say that Portra400 pushes to 800 and even 1600 with better shadow detail and better grain than than Portra800 looks at box speed or pushed 1 stop. Given that is true, if Kodak can't even make a better 800 speed film than their 400 speed film, a smaller RnD company on a more difficult E-6 process probably won't be able to.

Hi Stone

It was only a wish list item Ferrani will have problems enough with 100 IS0 production, machinery and distribution... to not be distracted.

Currently most of our lights are fluro so a T film would bomb here but that could change back over time, but there would be lead time.

Noel

 

[ME Super]

I believe in one of my earlier posts, I said that if Ferrania had a 640T film, that would be more useful than a 400D film for shooting indoors as I would lose 2/3 of a stop balancing daylight lighting to tungsten film, vs. losing 2 stops balancing tungsten lighting to daylight film. I also said that if they came out with the 800/3200 daylight film, then the pushability of the 800D film would be plenty usable indoors with a 1-stop push and the 80A filter. A 1-stop push of 800D gets you to 1600, then figure in the 2-stop loss for the filter drops you back to EI 400, which is plenty usable indoors. They've already said they plan to bring out a 400-speed daylight E-6 film, and then bring back the 800/3200 daylight film, so I'm good with that, and probably won't need the 640T if they can do that. With the 800/3200 E-6 film, the 640T becomes a "nice to have," not an "I really need this."

As for an EIR/Aerochrome style film, that's a nice-to-have, and they gave a very Ilford-like response, which I'm perfectly happy with. If they can bring one of those out, great. If not, that's no big deal. I'd rather do without the EIR/Aerochrome film than cause the Ferrania boat to sink because they brought out an EIR-like film and lost too much money because of it.

 

[Roger Cole]

You did. I personally would find a 400 daylight film more useful overall. I shoot that frozen Provia 400X I bought up, but the vast majority of it I actually shoot outdoors, in daylight - but on overcast days, near sunset etc. Night time and indoors are some uses for fast film, but particularly for me for film faster than 400. 400 isn't really fast enough for me for most interiors or night shots of moving subjects or with a handheld camera. For those I want that pushability to at least 1600 and preferably 3200 (I shoot a lot of Delta 3200, and almost all of that IS indoors or night.)

I run into far more cases where 100 isn't fast enough than I do where 400 is too fast.

 

[TheToadMen]

..

 

[TheToadMen]

I run into far more cases where 100 isn't fast enough than I do where 400 is too fast.

Using 400 ASA film with a 2 stop ND filter equals 100 ASA film. Or with a 1 stop ND filter also 200 ASA.
But I haven't seen an analogue filter yet that can give me 400 ASA with a 100 ASA film ...


Bert from Holland
http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

It was only a wish list item Ferrani will have problems enough with 100 IS0 production, machinery and distribution... to not be distracted.

Noel... for once we are in complete agreement.

Dave had to have known that starting an open questions thread like this would bring out all of the bizarre wish list products that only had a market of one. Especially here on APUG. Color infrared? Right out of the gate? Really?

Everyone wants some oddball product to be made available just for them, and they are convinced that the rest of the world wants it also. I mean, it IS a pretty cool product, right? So why wouldn't everyone else want it too, right?

I would not have contributed to the KS project if I felt they could be so easily be pulled off the critical path by distractions. They won't. That's why I gave them my money.



Ken

 

[MattKing]

Noel... for once we are in complete agreement.

Dave had to have known that starting an open questions thread like this would bring out all of the bizarre wish list products that only had a market of one. Especially here on APUG. Color infrared? Right out of the gate? Really?

Everyone wants some oddball product to be made available just for them, and they are convinced that the rest of the world wants it also. I mean, it IS a pretty cool product, right? So why wouldn't everyone else want it too, right?

I would not have contributed to the KS project if I felt they could be so easily pulled off the critical path by distractions. They won't. That's why I gave them my money.



Ken

I would have no problem if Ferrania was open to special order contracting for smallish runs of unusual products for a customer like Lomography. I expect that they are the sort of market where false colour IR for pictorial use would be very successful .

It all depends on how flexible their production facilities/procedures are.

It would be a different thing if people were asking for the high reliability/scientific tool EIR that Kodak made for purposes other than pictorial use.