Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

Roger Cole · Feb 3, 2015

Ah, here we go. These are scans I did from the 5x7 machine prints I got back from Dwayne's, not from the negatives, so no telling what they did and the negative might be wonky but it seemed to clean up fine. Expiration late 1990s (would have to go look at another roll to say for sure) shot and processed in 2012, Optima 400 220, 6x4.5 in Mamiya 645 Pro. My wife on a day at the park and a fine wound around a rust coated end of a pedestrian bridge.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 3, 2015

Roger Cole said:
1. There was a very long, contentious thread about whether freezing film actually helped preserve it. PE freezes his film. 'Nuff said.

Nzoomed · Feb 3, 2015

Roger Cole said:
Two observations:

1. There was a very long, contentious thread about whether freezing film actually helped preserve it. PE freezes his film. 'Nuff said.
2. I have some Optima 400 from the 90s, supposedly frozen since purchase when I bought it off eBay but of course I've no way to verify that, and definitely frozen by me since. It seems ok. A bit warm but so was the light.

From all the stuff ive read, freezing film appears to be safe, its more that you have to be careful about condensation, so keep it well sealed in a dry container etc.

Ive shot old film that has been frozen for years with perfect results, maybe Kodak film does freeze better for long term storage, but from what i have also read, i know that most chemical reactions and oxidization should be virtually nil if frozen, obviously the colder the better.

Im interested to know what the oldest frozen films are around that have been shot and what results they had.

Photo Engineer · Feb 3, 2015

Nzoomed said:
I guess we can give you credit for making Kodak's films store well in our freezers!

This was a very intensive group effort across projects, sharing chemicals that might make any improvement in any property of our films. No one person could do all of what was needed.

PE

Francesco_from_Rome · Feb 4, 2015

Roger Cole said:
Two observations:

1. There was a very long, contentious thread about whether freezing film actually helped preserve it. PE freezes his film. 'Nuff said.

Funny, I thought the same thing

Francesco

Sirius Glass · Feb 4, 2015

Roger Cole said:
There was a very long, contentious thread about whether freezing film actually helped preserve it. PE freezes his film. 'Nuff said.

That and ten years of my experience and thirty years of my father's experience.

Nzoomed · Feb 4, 2015

Photo Engineer said:
This was a very intensive group effort across projects, sharing chemicals that might make any improvement in any property of our films. No one person could do all of what was needed.

PE

Thats why i think its such a shame to see more and more Kodak products disappear.

Would be great to see that knowledge passed down and used in future films no matter what company makes the product.
I guess we will have to wait for patents to expire...

cmacd123 · Feb 4, 2015

Nzoomed said:
Would be great to see that knowledge passed down and used in future films no matter what company makes the product.
I guess we will have to wait for patents to expire...

Since the research seems to have petered out at EK, Their ability to file useful patents on film has probably also dried up. That means that the bulk of their existing patents are probably well on their way to expiring.

The bad news of course is that a big company tends to patent "Any discovery" that they find, even if it is not as good a method than they already use, just so they can use the patent in there negotiations with competitors. (patents are often of more use in packages to get the rights to use a competitors ideas.) SO even when the patents expire, the other makers will have to evaluate the ideas to see if they are "wonderful" or "wonder why they bothered"

alanrockwood · Feb 5, 2015

cmacd123 said:
...big company tends to patent "Any discovery" that they find, even if it is not as good a method than they already use, just so they can use the patent in there negotiations with competitors. (patents are often of more use in packages to get the rights to use a competitors ideas.) SO even when the patents expire, the other makers will have to evaluate the ideas to see if they are "wonderful" or "wonder why they bothered"

There is also a closely related strategy known as "defensive patenting."

Dr Croubie · Feb 5, 2015

alanrockwood said:
There is also a closely related strategy known as "defensive patenting."

plus another strategy, I'm not sure if it has a real name, but it's along the lines of:
"let's not patent this thing, because as soon a we do it's in the public domain and competitors will try to get as close as they can without infringing the patent, instead let's just hope / presume it's so innovative that nobody else actually manages to figure out how to do it too"

And there's also the oft-mentioned problem that not everything is patentable, nor covered by one.
Certain things about the methods they used to test accelerated-aging may be patentable and patented, as would be the improvements in chemicals for the next film as a result of those tests.
Some things may have been (at the time) 'obvious to a skilled worker in the field' and not patentable (whether or not it would be obvious to someone skilled in the field today).
And other things just aren't patentable at all, like the results themselves. They'd probably just be stored in a filing cabinet someday until someone declares them a fire risk and throws the whole lot out (don't laugh, it happened at my old job with years of sales and design records).

Photo Engineer · Feb 5, 2015

There are patents, defensive patents (still just a patent), Research Disclosures, Defensive Publications, Journals and trade secrets.

The first two are obvious. The second two are just publications in some sort of authentic journal, with or without peer review. The Journals have peer review such as JACS (Journal of the American Chemical Society), and the last are undisclosed anywhere. The last will be the killer here.

PE

Nzoomed · Feb 23, 2015

Bump for Ferrania.
Cant wait to see the first roll come off the line!

trythis · Feb 23, 2015

Anyone received a postcard? Nothing here.

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 23, 2015

"coming soon..?"

railwayman3 · Feb 23, 2015

trythis said:
Anyone received a postcard? Nothing here.

Mine arrived about 3-4 weeks ago (UK).

Nzoomed · Feb 23, 2015

trythis said:
Anyone received a postcard? Nothing here.

I got mine ages ago, perhaps it got lost in the mail?
It also may pay to check if you got your details over to kickstarter when they sent you the survey.

FILM Ferrania · Feb 23, 2015

trythis said:
Anyone received a postcard? Nothing here.

Did you purchase a Postcard from Italy reward or add one on to another reward? If so, direct message me and I can look you up in our database.

Ricardo Miranda · Feb 23, 2015

trythis said:
Anyone received a postcard? Nothing here.

Also check if it is part of your reward. It isn't on mine.

Dr Croubie · Feb 23, 2015

Postage from Europe is weird sometimes, I got a card from my cousin about her new baby (Netherlands posting to Aus) about a week after it was posted.
2 weeks later my mum (who lives maybe 5-10km from me) got the same card, posted on the same day from the same place.
First week of Feb she got an Xmas card from NL post-marked Dec 10th, all the ones she received actually in December were posted after that one...

RattyMouse · Feb 23, 2015

trythis said:
Anyone received a postcard? Nothing here.

I didn't get mine yet. It was to be sent to Chicago, just as a reference.

trythis · Feb 24, 2015

I suppose I should have looked! I am not suppose to get one. DUh!

railwayman3 · Feb 24, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Also check if it is part of your reward. It isn't on mine.

IIRC, the postcard was either a separate item, or an add-on to another reward.....I went for the 2x35mm plus 2x120 films, than added the extra (was it $15? not sure now?) for the postcard.

RattyMouse · Feb 24, 2015

RattyMouse said:
I didn't get mine yet. It was to be sent to Chicago, just as a reference.

Were people who were to get 4 rolls of film to also get a post card? I thought yes but perhaps my memory is wrong.

railwayman3 · Feb 24, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Were people who were to get 4 rolls of film to also get a post card? I thought yes but perhaps my memory is wrong.

As my post above ^^^^, I went for 4 films (2x35mm plus 2x120), and the postcard was definitely an extra add-on and extra cost.

FILM Ferrania · Feb 24, 2015

Just to be clear, the Postcard from Italy was a standalone reward and was not automatically included in any other rewards.

In one of our early updates, we did announce that folks could ADD the Postcard from Italy to their other reward...

Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania

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