Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[twelvetone12]

Which perspective? Did anyone force them to have a 12-day countdown? For two days? There was not a way to buffer two days to bring up a web shop so you would not blow what you promised, for your first product? No one forced them to over promise. Is the operation going to be managed all this way? Wow this is surely a good way to build credibility! And not because they could not make film, because they could not bring up the shop to sell it. Is sounds even worse.

 

[Berri]

Oh come on guys what is the point of a counter if then you reset it? I'm sincerely a bit saddened by this. If the deadlines are not 100% achievable then it is better not to have deadlines, even if the delays is just two days. I can survive without having the film in my hands, but you are sending out really a bad message.
In the trade I work, canning a deadline by two days means monetary penalties, angry clients, and having justifying why one should keep his job.

True.

 

[Berri]

It is happening exactly what I thought it was gonna happen, and I don't know a thing of business management.
Credibility is very important when starting up a business. As it has been said, no one forced them to have a count down. 12 days ago I said that it was silly to promise again something so specific because bad things happen and all you do il let people down to the point nobody believes you anymore.
Now what will happen if for some other good reason they'll have to postpone the count down again?

 

[Berri]

At this point it would have been much more reassuring if they (he) posted a photo of the films ready to ship so that the whole community knows that film is ready and it is only a matter of time until the web shop is ready too. Could it be that there is not enough film to satisfy the market needs?

 

[Berri]

Also it's not going to be easy to ship to every corner of the world from one single location. It's only ten of them, how they gonna manage to do it? I still believe that it would have been easier to give film in large quantities to some reliable dealers in Europe and USA so that people could order from different places. I'm afraid that they will be in the bad situation of not being able to meet demand and postpone over and over and over

 

[swchris]

Regarding estimating schedules....

In my previous work I was responsible for a team of software developers. When management asked for how long would it take to implement a feature, I asked the developer responsilble for this part of the software how long it would take him to implement that feature if he woiuld work solely (100'%) on it.

Developer responded with x days. Since it's unrealistic that he can really work 100% of his time on it (interruptions by unrelated questions from colleagues, urgent help in some other area, etc.), I estimated he in fact will just work 70% of his time on the task.
Adjusted his estimation to x*10/7.

To account for unexpected problems on the way, I doubled the result. So if one thinks it'll take x days, the real time until it's done is

x*10/7*2 days.

This worked very well....

 

[railwayman3]

And its today my time.
So yes, im not sure why the counter on the website is saying 2 days, 17 hours???

Edit:

Ive just received a kickstarter email from them explaining the reasons for the delay!

I've not had anything from kickstarter recently, and nothing to explain or confirm the discount on the P30 purchases which I understood was available.

I'm actually getting a teeny bit impatient with Ferrania....I fully understand the delays and problems and don't mind waiting to try the films, but there's no need for the missed promises and things like the silly hype with the counter. The demand for the films are clearly there at the moment from the serious enthusiasts, and, so far, they have enjoyed immense goodwill from supporters, but, if they want to be a serious long-term supplier, I wonder...... ?

I have found in my profession that clients can be understanding of issues and delays given honest and proper communication and liason, but what they will not accept is being let down when unrealistic promises go wrong, and particularly by excuses.

 

[Nzoomed]

I've not had anything from kickstarter recently, and nothing to explain or confirm the discount on the P30 purchases which I understood was available.

I'm actually getting a teeny bit impatient with Ferrania....I fully understand the delays and problems and don't mind waiting to try the films, but there's no need for the missed promises and things like the silly hype with the counter. The demand for the films are clearly there at the moment from the serious enthusiasts, and, so far, they have enjoyed immense goodwill from supporters, but, if they want to be a serious long-term supplier, I wonder...... ?

I have found in my profession that clients can be understanding of issues and delays given honest and proper communication and liason, but what they will not accept is being let down when unrealistic promises go wrong, and particularly by excuses.

There have been some things messed up on the kickstarter emails, I too have for some reason missed some earlier updates.

Basically its an unforseen problem with the online store not working, and this is understandable, lots of things that dont always work out.

Anyway, they have said the interest in P30 has far exceeded their expectations and they will probably need at least 10,000 rolls of film produced and the current capacity is 1000 rolls at a time, so they are getting the larger mixing tank ready.

There should be another update regarding this very soon.

All in all this is positive news, albeit delayed by 48 hours, i dont care.

Im sure Dave will explain further on the matter.

 

[Berri]

Im sure Dave will explain further on the matter.

I'm sure he will. But that is not the point because he shouldn't have been in the position of having to explain yet again another missed deadline.

 

[Berri]

I said before that the countdown was bound to create all of this in the likely event of something going wrong. Dave, as the marketing responsable and main spokesman shoud have known it too. you don't set back a countdown, what's the point then??

 

[ericdan]

Two days is for the shop to go online. That doesn't mean there won't be problems shipping the film. Based on their history P30 buyers will see a lot more delays before they actually receive the film. I'm not even planning on buying P30 anymore. I just find it ridiculous how this project is being handled.

 

[Berri]

Two days is for the shop to go online. That doesn't mean there won't be problems shipping the film. Based on their history P30 buyers will see a lot more delays before they actually receive the film. I'm not even planning on buying P30 anymore. I just find it ridiculous how this project is being handled.

yes. as I suggested they should have sold the films to retailers so that they could cash money in one go and people could buy films from their trusted suppliers around the world. They said this is too difficult to do at the beginning...Seriusly? Evidently it is more difficult to open a web based shop.

 

[railwayman3]

There have been some things messed up on the kickstarter emails, I too have for some reason missed some earlier updates.

Basically its an unforseen problem with the online store not working, and this is understandable, lots of things that dont always work out.

Anyway, they have said the interest in P30 has far exceeded their expectations and they will probably need at least 10,000 rolls of film produced and the current capacity is 1000 rolls at a time, so they are getting the larger mixing tank ready.

There should be another update regarding this very soon.

All in all this is positive news, albeit delayed by 48 hours, i dont care.

Im sure Dave will explain further on the matter.

I fully understand what you are saying.

BUT......is it really good enough to say "some things messed up on the kickstarter emails"....."messed up" as a excuse doesn't work in the real business world.

Neither does the excuse of an online store "not working out", when dozens of tiny businesses operate them efficiantly 24/7 ?

And, surely, given the enormous and loyal interest by supporters and backers, they might have expected that there would be a serious demand for product ?

For us, it's a hobby interest, so we probably don't care about another 48 hours. But if Ferrania aim to eventually supply professionals and movie makers, they are going to have to be more businesslike if these prospective customers already have other reliable existing suppliers. ?

 

[railwayman3]

Who cares, get over it, its only a couple of days lol

Would a couple of days unexpected delay be acceptable on the delivery of an order for a few miles of Ferrania movie film needed for a major $$$ production, rather than a few 1,000 rolls for a few interested enthusiasts to experiment with.....and maybe buy a few more if it's any good. Surviving on selling a few amateur 35mm films surely isn't a viable long-term business plan. (And, yes, I really do want Ferrania to succeed, but they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot right now....)

 

[Berri]

Would a couple of days unexpected delay be acceptable on the delivery of an order for a few miles of Ferrania movie film needed for a major $$$ production, rather than a few 1,000 rolls for a few interested enthusiasts to experiment with.....and maybe buy a few more if it's any good. Surviving on selling a few amateur 35mm films surely isn't a viable long-term business plan. (And, yes, I really do want Ferrania to succeed, but they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot right now....)

major movie productions will stick to what they already know best: kodak. Movie film will be used by indies and hobbysts

 

[railwayman3]

major movie productions will stick to what they already know best: kodak. Movie film will be used by indies and hobbysts

Precisely....and maybe the latter will also stick to their reliable films and suppliers when results and finance are important.

I have my daughter's wedding in the autumn and, while it might sound romantic to shoot with P30 as being one of the legendary movie films, I will be using one of my few known regular films, chosen when I know the location and conditions. And, whenever I need, I can still order a choice of reliable Ilford, Kodak, Fuji, Adox and probably other products, all online within 1-2 days.
(Not intending to, but I seem to be talking myself out of buying any Ferrania ).

 

[railwayman3]

I'm italian and it's funny (in a sad sense) seeing how non italians react positively to all the broken promises (as of today) by Ferrania.
It's cristal clear that only italians know how things go in this otherwise beautiful country (and not so beautiful italians).

Sorry, maybe I'm dim this morning, but I don't understand. I'm not sure that most of us are reacting positively at all. (I'm not Italian.)

 

[Berri]

Sorry, maybe I'm dim this morning, but I don't understand. I'm not sure that most of us are reacting positively at all. (I'm not Italian.)

I think he means that we italians are used to broken promises, people that say "it's only two days" should be awere of the fact that in italian time this could mean 20 years.

 

[railwayman3]

And its today my time.
So yes, im not sure why the counter on the website is saying 2 days, 17 hours???

Edit:

Ive just received a kickstarter email from them explaining the reasons for the delay!

More than I've had.

 

[Berri]

just around where I live there is a scaffolding on a building and the sign says "consegna dei lavori giugno 2007" which means "delivery on june 2007" I guess they are half way through!

 

[fdonadio]

I think he means that we italians are used to broken promises, people that say "it's only two days" should be awere of the fact that in italian time this could mean 20 years.

Hhmmm... Looks like Brazil. That might be explained by the huge number of Italian immigrants here, my family included.

 

[railwayman3]

I think he means that we italians are used to broken promises, people that say "it's only two days" should be awere of the fact that in italian time this could mean 20 years.

Hmmmm....remember never to invest in any more Italian businesses ?

 

[Berri]

Hmmmm....remember never to invest in any more Italian businesses ?

oh please don't! we need your money!

 

[Berri]

Hmmmm....remember never to invest in any more Italian businesses ?

their spokesman is american though...maybe an italian would have been a better liar!

 

[railwayman3]

their spokesman is american though...maybe an italian would have been a better liar!

Let's not go down that route.....