Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

Meyer Trioplan · Apr 4, 2017

Everyone is certainly entitled to their personal opinions as well as to express them.

I certainly see this product as distinctive enough in appearance from existing offerings to certainly warrant trying in the interest of finding a great application for it. I also think that given the economies of scale at play (compared with Kodak or Ilford) with this initial alpha batch, the price is within reason, particularly since this is a freshly developed emulsion and not a re-branding of products designed for different applications.

Even if the end result is that P30 winds up being a "novelty product" (and the argument can be made that most film shot these days for hobby purposes is due to its novel nature), it can still have a successful future. I'm still a bit surprised at how rapidly that "cask aged" Ferrania 400 wound up selling.

Agulliver · Apr 4, 2017

From the photos we have seen, I would say that P30 is quite unlike anything else I have tried....it's not closely matched to Adox Silvermax, the old Efke emulsions, or Fomapan 100...it's light years away from Delta and T-Max 100 or even FP4+. It's got a look all of it's own so it has a position in the market.

Hatchetman · Apr 4, 2017

Looks good. Now that we have some idea of development I will buy a roll if I can find one.

Brady Eklund · Apr 4, 2017

Still waiting for someone to figure out HC-110, though I was thinking of ordering some Rodinal anyway.

Berri · Apr 4, 2017

I am so little experience d in B&w that I sincerely couldn't tell the difference between this P30 and any other non tabular film in the same ISO range

MattKing · Apr 4, 2017

Berri said:
I am so little experience d in B&w that I sincerely couldn't tell the difference between this P30 and any other non tabular film in the same ISO range

I've got lots of experience, and I don't think that I'd be able to tell anything from the scans presented, other than it's possible to achieve satisfying scans from the film.
I also have to wonder - is there even the slightest bit of contribution from that beautiful Italian light and countryside .
To be fair, all test shots should be required to be done in Rochester New York!

Anon Ymous · Apr 4, 2017

Berri said:
I am so little experience d in B&w that I sincerely couldn't tell the difference between this P30 and any other non tabular film in the same ISO range

I honestly believe that nobody would. These results do look fine, but IMHO they're not outstanding, nor unique. And as others have already said, I wish them good luck, sincerely hope that they establish themselves as a quality film manufacturer, but feel that at this price point I'd rather shoot TMX, or Delta 100.

Peter Schrager · Apr 4, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
Rollei has never made that claim.
You are confusing apples with oranges.
It is ADOX with Silvermax that makes the claim.
Silvermax is a custom run by InoViscoat for ADOX.

Well the rollei films aren't far behind...unless you have access to ilford or kodak I see no reason to support these films. ..
Just my opinion of course.. spend your money where you like...again I wish them luck

Anon Ymous · Apr 4, 2017

Peter Schrager said:
Well the rollei films aren't far behind...unless you have access to ilford or kodak I see no reason to support these films. ..
Just my opinion of course.. spend your money where you like...again I wish them luck

Rollei films are more than competitively priced in Europe. In fact, they're quite cheaper than Kodak and Ilford films. You can blame the US distributor and/or retailers for this mismatch.

ericdan · Apr 4, 2017

If B&W films are in such high demand that we need yet another 100 iso range film, I really wonder why Fuji & Kodak discontinued their higher speed films. I'd really like to see the Super Presto aka Neopan 1600 come back.
Hopefully Ferrania will be successful enough to release something along those lines in the near future.

railwayman3 · Apr 5, 2017

Anon Ymous said:
I honestly believe that nobody would. These results do look fine, but IMHO they're not outstanding, nor unique. And as others have already said, I wish them good luck, sincerely hope that they establish themselves as a quality film manufacturer, but feel that at this price point I'd rather shoot TMX, or Delta 100.

Yes, the results look good.....but the elephant-in-the-room is that we're being asked to judge an analog product from a digital scan on a screen !

Would it not be beyond the bounds of possibility for a purported analog company to supply a free specimen print to every Kickstarter backer...even a postcard size, like the cards they sent last year; it would be a small token of appreciation of our support with our hard-earned money, since it certainly seems likely (IMHO) that we won't now see any E6 before at least 2018 (I know, I know, I'm blaming no-one, but come on, let's be realistic, guys....).

Hopefully we would be sufficiently impressed to want to pay out the price plus carriage, and to actually buy some film in meaningful and ongoing quantities that will really support Ferrania, not just a one-off novelty purchase of two or three films to play around with.

Agulliver · Apr 5, 2017

Again, I think it is worth pointing out....this is an Alpha product. It's not in full scale production, this is a limited run. It's not even the main line of film that Ferrania hope to be manufacturing later this year.

Chances are that when/if P30 becomes a regular product, it will be cheaper as will international distribution. Let's say that in 2018 the chances are that the products they offer will be more keenly priced and they will have more comprehensive distribution.

twelvetone12 · Apr 5, 2017

You mean making 5k+ enlargements in the darkroom?

railwayman3 · Apr 5, 2017

twelvetone12 said:
You mean making 5k+ enlargements in the darkroom?

I've no idea whether it is still done, but "Real Photographic" postcards used to be printed in the 1,000's by machine and sold for pence.....not unlike machine printing at your local minilab, if you still have such a thing locally. Even digital prints would be better than trying to judge the quality of a film or photograph by scans shown on a computer screen.

From 15 seconds search on Google, I find that Vistaprint offer 1,000 postcards for £23.74. (And Vistaprint are good, I get all my professional business stationery from them.) 5,000 cost less than 100 euros !

For advertising there's little better than something physical, on paper or whatever, which people will stick up somewhere on a shelf in their darkroom or study, or on a corkboard in their kitchen, and see every day. Better than promises which disappear when you switch off the PC.

afriman · Apr 5, 2017

railwayman3 said:
For advertising there's little better than something physical, on paper or whatever, which people will stick up somewhere on a shelf in their darkroom or study, or on a corkboard in their kitchen, and see every day. Better than promises which disappear when you switch off the PC.

Think of the striking b&w images on Ilford's boxes of paper. Really good images will find their way onto office notice boards, shop & restaurant walls, etc. With a logo and a web address in the corner, they can do a lot to raise awareness.

afriman · Apr 5, 2017

A quick and dirty example:

afriman · Apr 5, 2017

Or something along these lines:

eharriett · Apr 5, 2017

Hey, has anyone gotten a ship notice yet? The store said those that successfully preordered would have the film released on April 4. That was yesterday. Any updates?

Not really a big deal, but I'm on a trip next week and if it released on time, I could try it out while I'm traveling. I already made some plans in case it doesn't get here with alternate film, but I am still holding out hope it will get here no later than Saturday's mail.

jimjm · Apr 5, 2017

According to information in the store, they would begin shipping film on Apr 4 based on a first-come, first-served basis. I assume that means if you got your order in early, it'd be among the first to ship.
Depending on the capacity and staffing of the U.S. warehouse, it may be weeks (or longer) before all P30 Alpha customers receive their film, assuming it's in stock and ready to ship.

ericdan · Apr 6, 2017

I have a feeling it might take a while to get your film.
in the meantime why not shoot some Acros 100 before Fuji axes that one too? It's a fantastic film.
We also currently have the following in the same range: tmax100, FP4+, Delta100, Silvermax, CHS II,Retro 80s, RPX100, APX100, Kentmere 100, Fomapan 100

eharriett · Apr 6, 2017

Hmmm. Well, I got on the site on day one when the shop opened, once it got fixed and I was able to order with no problem. Not sure how long until it sold out, but I didn't even own a film camera when the kickstarter happened, so I'm behind every one of them, but towards the beginning of the line when the shop opened to the general public.

Nice selection of options, ericdan. Up until recently, my preferred b&w has been Ilford Pro 100 in medium format. I haven't had a 35mm camera until just a couple months ago, so I'm experimenting with different films I like. Thanks for those suggestions. My "backup" b&w I prepared for this trip just in case Ferrania didn't ship before I left (I knew it would be close anyway, so I'm cool with the backup) is Kodak 5222 film (called Double x, I think). I really like the results I am seeing from others on Flickr, and I will be very happy to get about half the quality I am seeing from others.

Agulliver · Apr 6, 2017

I ordered very early on day two as I couldn't on day one....and my order number suggests I am some way down the pecking order. Not that I object, and I believe we have been informed it's likely to be a few weeks before all the orders are shipped.

mshchem · Apr 11, 2017

railwayman3 said:
I've no idea whether it is still done, but "Real Photographic" postcards used to be printed in the 1,000's by machine and sold for pence.....not unlike machine printing at your local minilab, if you still have such a thing locally. Even digital prints would be better than trying to judge the quality of a film or photograph by scans shown on a computer screen.

From 15 seconds search on Google, I find that Vistaprint offer 1,000 postcards for £23.74. (And Vistaprint are good, I get all my professional business stationery from them.) 5,000 cost less than 100 euros !

For advertising there's little better than something physical, on paper or whatever, which people will stick up somewhere on a shelf in their darkroom or study, or on a corkboard in their kitchen, and see every day. Better than promises which disappear when you switch off the PC.

I saw a machine on Ebay not long ago. A electric driven high speed contact printer from the 20's or 30's ? A company in my hometown Kilborn Photo made Kruxo brand photo postcard paper. In the US 3 1/4 x 5 1/2 inch negative. RPPC are a thing of beauty. Nothing beats a quality contact print.
Best Mike

Photo Engineer · Apr 11, 2017

I used the Kodak model III and IV printers in the 50s doing prints like this.

PE

kb3lms · Apr 11, 2017

About the frozen emulsion,

wlodekmj said:
Thank you - at least now I understand the question!
Maybe one day Corrado will have time to tell us.

Well, I could understand about keeping the emulsion cool during a curing or storage period. It's possible that some ingredient would go bad if stored warm. Also, I could see the possibility that warm storage could promote fog or biological growth.

But, in the posting where they showed us the "Little Boy" coater in operation with the green colored gelatin, and I'm assuming the green was food coloring or similar dye, it was noted that the "emulsion" (gelatin only) was frozen. Clearly, from the video, it appeared that it was not just cold, but frozen. IIRC they said the emulsion was always used frozen. (Don't quote me on the last part.)

IDK if Corrado will ever be on here, but maybe Dave could give some insight.

Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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