Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[flavio81]

Currently, that's up to individual members. One can freely use one's real name as a user name.

If, on the other hand, you intended to communicate that you wish this forum would mandate use of real names, I wholeheartedly agree. I'd extend that to all other Internet forums and commenting systems. In my opinion, doing so would go a long way toward returning civility to the world.

If i used my real name, my employeer would not be impressed with the amount of messages i post here.

As for Dave "Film Ferrania" Bias, i'd be glad to give him my real name via PM and i think everyone else here would do as well.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I thought everyone knew my name!

The ads for my book are on APUG.

PE

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Currently, that's up to individual members. One can freely use one's real name as a user name.

If, on the other hand, you intended to communicate that you wish this forum would mandate use of real names, I wholeheartedly agree. I'd extend that to all other Internet forums and commenting systems. In my opinion, doing so would go a long way toward returning civility to the world.

I certainly understand the various reasons for usernames - and I'm not calling for a mandate. I just like referring to people by name...

 

[peter k.]

Imps up...
My name is Peter, Peter pumpkin eater and I'm looking forward to your product.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

we know that they are doing everything they can to be the right size for the market.

This cannot be overstated - so thank you for bringing it up!

Being right-sized is the #1 priority at all times. It's the reason we're still only 9 people (including me and the founders). It's the reason we stepped aside for most of last year - to allow the Italian government to spend €2M on our building rather than take on that debt ourselves. It's the reason that 80% of our available equipment is still in storage. And it's the reason we're still here, nearly five years after Nicola and Marco first toured the campus...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I thought everyone knew my name!

The ads for my book are on APUG.

Oh! So you're Robert Shanebrook?

 

[iandvaag]

PE (Photo Engineer) is Ron Mowrey, author of "Emulsion Making, Coating, and Testing", advertised here on APUG. As you may have guessed by his book's title, he is a retired Kodak engineer who is still active in research, particularly in small scale emulsion making among a variety of other things. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in General Chemistry and a Masters in Organic Chemistry. Given his vast knowledge and experience, Ron is widely known as the authoritative voice here on APUG. He has generously spent a lot of time answering many questions and correcting false information.

From what I read in his many posts, he is also very humble which is why I decided to post this on his behalf. I hope I am not out of line.

Ian Andvaag (iandvaag)

 

[Photo Engineer]

Oh! So you're Robert Shanebrook?

Nope, he is using another screen name here on APUG, and so far, both of us have been happy.

I'm editing this as the previous post came in while I was typing.

Yes, that is me. Thanks for calling me humble. I hope I can bear the title well.

PE

 

[FILM Ferrania]

PE (Photo Enigineer) is Ron Mowrey, author of "Emulsion Making, Coating, and Testing", advertised here on APUG. As you may have guessed by his book's title, he is a retired Kodak engineer who is still active in research, particularly in small scale emulsion making among a variety of other things. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in General Chemistry and a Masters in Organic Chemistry. Given his vast knowledge and experience, Ron is widely known as the authoritative voice here on APUG. He has generously spent a lot of time answering many questions and correcting false information.

From what I read in his many posts, he is also very humble which is why I decided to post this on his behalf. I hope I am not out of line.

Ian Andvaag (iandvaag)

Thanks for this!

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Nope, he is using another screen name here on APUG, and so far, both of us have been happy.

I'm editing this as the previous post came in while I was typing.

Yes, that is me. Thanks for calling me humble. I hope I can bear the title well.

PE

Hello Mr. Mowrey! Sorry for the mixup. If you prefer PE that's fine with me. Just glad to put a name to a handle.

 

[flavio81]

Thanks for this!

That's why i suggest you to suggest the FF team to consider contacting PE/Ron at some point in time, he's a very important asset for color film in the XXI Century... (And this is no hype at all... PE is one of the inventors of the most celebrated, debated, and mourned Kodak film of all times.)

 

[Photo Engineer]

Flavio, that is really too much. My friend and I merely suggested CD6 to the process teams of reversal films. They tried it and we ended up with the patent.

Thanks thought.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks FF. I'm glad we are able to talk.

Best wishes.

PE

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Thanks FF. I'm glad we are able to talk.

Best wishes.

PE

Yes, PLEASE talk. Everyone! Ask me questions. Be critical. Have concerns. If I'm learning, I'm happy.

 

[twelvetone12]

For example, a ISO 25 or 64 film that has certain color non-linearlities built in, so it emulates the look of THAT Kodak film many people keep asking you about...

You are kidding, but somewhere on the Internets I was researching old super8 film and it seems 3M in Ferrania did make a K11 or K12 compatibile film in the early 70's!

 

[Sal Santamaura]

If i used my real name, my employeer would not be impressed with the amount of messages i post here...

Your employer knows exactly how many messages you post here. Your employer knows exactly what your APUG user ID is as well as other user IDs you be known as on different Web sites. A decision to participate while at work ought be made independent of any "handles" one goes by. Before retiring, I used my real name for more than a decade when posting from work, both here and at other forums.

The only people who are impacted by members not using real names are other forum members.

 

[Prest_400]

Nope, he is using another screen name here on APUG, and so far, both of us have been happy.

I'm editing this as the previous post came in while I was typing.

Yes, that is me. Thanks for calling me humble. I hope I can bear the title well.

PE

It's fantastic to have you around Ron. Keeps the barn guys realistic... I do have to agree that Ferrania is going to be a helluva barn.
It is really interesting to know about some technicalities and details that aren't visible to an end user, and how film itself is quite a remarkable product and no simple venture.

 

[Photo Engineer]

My Biochemistry professor likened making film to building an artificial eye. He even drew analogs to the dyes in the eye and the sensitizing dyes in films. The layers were akin to the cornea layers and etc. Amazing. We spent one afternoon drawing on his whiteboard. He was an amazing guy.

PE

 

[flavio81]

Your employer knows exactly how many messages you post here. Your employer knows exactly what your APUG user ID is as well as other user IDs you be known as on different Web sites.

How do you know? Why do you assert such a claim?

I'm a software engineer, i know very well the IT support team of the company and how limited the amount of control and survelliance over web traffic there is. Also, there is a BIG difference between being able to find out some information versus actually performing the task of finding such info and doing something about it.

Aside from that, I think people online should have a right to withold or protect their personal info including their real names. Paranoia over not knowing the names of other forumers is a bit silly, we can get along fine without knowing the other forumer's personal details. And, as I said before, you can always ask in private if you want.

 

[Nzoomed]

You are kidding, but somewhere on the Internets I was researching old super8 film and it seems 3M in Ferrania did make a K11 or K12 compatibile film in the early 70's!

WOW! I think I had read something similar some time back. Dave should be able to verify this.
That would be awesome if Ferrania were able to reproduce it! I know they said they are very interested in their formulas in the archive!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

My Biochemistry professor likened making film to building an artificial eye. He even drew analogs to the dyes in the eye and the sensitizing dyes in films. The layers were akin to the cornea layers and etc. Amazing. We spent one afternoon drawing on his whiteboard. He was an amazing guy.

PE

You had whiteboards back then?

 

[flavio81]

WOW! I think I had read something similar some time back. Dave should be able to verify this.
That would be awesome if Ferrania were able to reproduce it! I know they said they are very interested in their formulas in the archive!

Nzoomed, my suggestion was to make an E6 compatible film with the same color response. I think this could be a hit with people who, for days and months and years are wishing to be able to see K25 and K64 colors again. PE has mentioned that this is doable.

The Kodachrome processes are way too long and complex to be a good choice for a film in the XXI century... As for making the actual Kodachrome-compatible film, i am no photo engineer (pun intended), but I could bet that is easier to make a K14-compatible film than to make an E6-compatible film, since the structure is simpler.

And Photo Engineer has said in the past that of all films (B&W, C41-type, E6-type), the E-6 films were the most difficult to design due to various factors. So if our heroes at Ferrania can engineer a E-6 film, then they can engineer any other film.

Curiously, i was reading some back issues of Pop Photo on Google Books and found a test of 3M ColorSlide 640T against Kodak Ektachrome 160T. It is the year 1980 and with this film 3M (made by Ferrania, Italy) is now the undisputed fastest slide film:

https://books.google.com.pe/books?id=txFmVbE2EoUC

From the test, the conclusions are that the colors are really good, "realistic", and that it can be pushed to ISO 2560 (!!), which is amazingly fast for a tungsten balanced film even today. The downside is that it was noticeably grainier. Of course that is expected, if it is 2 stop faster than the Kodak product. But i would love to have this stuff in 120 format, where grain would not be a problem, in fact, it could be an asset (sometimes medium format looks too clean!)

So in 1980, the engineers at Ferrania were able to compete against Kodak... That means they had pretty good resources, at least in 1980.

 

[flavio81]

WOW! I think I had read something similar some time back. Dave should be able to verify this.
That would be awesome if Ferrania were able to reproduce it! I know they said they are very interested in their formulas in the archive!

Nzoomed, my suggestion was to make an E6 compatible film with the same color response. I think this could be a hit with people who, for days and months and years are wishing to be able to see K25 and K64 colors again. PE has mentioned that this is doable.

The Kodachrome processes are way too long and complex to be a good choice for a film in the XXI century... As for making the actual Kodachrome-compatible film, i am no photo engineer (pun intended), but I could bet that is easier to make a K14-compatible film than to make an E6-compatible film, since the structure is simpler.

And Photo Engineer has said in the past that of all films (B&W, C41-type, E6-type), the E-6 films were the most difficult to design due to various factors. So if our heroes at Ferrania can engineer a E-6 film, then they can engineer any other film.

Curiously, i was reading some back issues of Pop Photo on Google Books and found a test of 3M ColorSlide 640T against Kodak Ektachrome 160T. It is the year 1980 and with this film 3M (made by Ferrania, Italy) is now the undisputed fastest slide film:

https://books.google.com.pe/books?id=txFmVbE2EoUC

From the test, the conclusions are that the colors are really good, "realistic", and that it can be pushed to ISO 2560 (!!), which is amazingly fast for a tungsten balanced film even today. The downside is that it was noticeably grainier. Of course that is expected, if it is 2 stop faster than the Kodak product. But i would love to have this stuff in 120 format, where grain would not be a problem, in fact, it could be an asset (sometimes medium format looks too clean!)

So in 1980, the engineers at Ferrania were able to compete against Kodak... That means they had pretty good resources, at least in 1980.

It is curious and surprising than in 2016 the ones who will "save" color film did not come from Rochester nor Leverkusen nor Japan, but from Liguria. Perhaps Wolfen will also want to come to the rescue and produce color film as well?

 

[flavio81]

PS -- also, look at this (the year is 2003)

Ferrania ranks highest in independent colour film tests

https://www.ephotozine.com/article/ferrania-ranks-highest-in-independent-colour-film-tests-1311

I've seen this news in the past, i think i've seen it back in 2003, when I could actually buy Solaris film in my country. Of course, i used to be a faitful Fuji shooter back then, so i sticked with Superia 100 and 1600 which i loved with a passion. Also Kodak Gold 100, which was really grainy for the speed but had very nice colors and sharpness.

But now, 2016, Fujifilm is my least liked brand...

 

[twelvetone12]

It is a pity that Ferrania film was not more aggressively marketed a Ferrania, at least in Italy. All the photographers I know thought the factory shut its doors in the 60s.