Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

Photo Engineer · Oct 21, 2016

I am following this and wishing them well. I've been there so to speak, making photo materials for real and now making them at home and teaching others.

However, I don't wish to hijack this thread with dye stability material. I do have the data and references, about 1/2 inch of them, sitting next to me right now, and will be glad to quote them for Sal or anyone else. But I want a separate thread started by Sal so that I can do it without interfering with this one. I do this out of respect for their great task and the interest of those following a dedicated thread.

Here are 3 comments though:

1. Predictions are very hard to make, especially if they are about the future! (either Bohr, Berra or Twain - take your pick)
2. Sal, I dug these up just for you - if we do go on and I have to scan in these answers, then you owe me big time... Muahahahahah
3. Starting references: Bugner, Oakland and Willard - IS&T journal.

PE

Photo Engineer · Oct 21, 2016

BTW, my references to Foot Candles above is an error. Most references nowdays are in LUX.

Sorry, I just got used to FC and FCH when I was doing this.

PE

MattKing · Oct 21, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
BTW, my references to Food Candles above is an error.

You must have been hungry

Photo Engineer · Oct 21, 2016

Thanks Matt.

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 21, 2016

Sal Santamaura said:
was very intentionally explicit when referring to "on display." Perhaps the rest of my construction was more ambiguous. It is RA4 that lasts longer in display, not Cibachrome/Ilfochrome. In dark storage, their life expectancies are reversed.

That's OK. I have 115 Ilfchrome Classic prints framed, and 344 conservation matted in dark storage. Endura Pro. RA4 numbers are growing and growing with each passing month (need off-site storage soon).

I am disturbed by PE's comment about his Ilfochrome Classic prints turning brown in dark storage. What freakishness is going on there??

I am all for a separate thread being started up to look at Ilfochrome Classic and RA4 materials.

FILM Ferrania · Oct 21, 2016

So the conversation in the last couple of days has become sufficiently scientifically advanced to be well over my head, but I just wanted to clarify a couple of things I noticed in other comments.

1. Regarding my statement about the "professional" and "consumer" designations: I understand that there is more to these products, physically/chemically, than just a name. My intention was to point out the use of these terms to segment the market back when such a thing made perfectly good business sense. But with the total market at 1% it's former size (give or take), what is the sense in segmentation today? As far as I'm concerned, there is just one segment - people who buy film. And FILM Ferrania will simply not have the luxury of dividing this segment any further.

2. Regarding paper coating: We have salvaged most of two paper coating lines from the former operation. It's my understanding that these machines were used to make inkjet papers until the mid-2000s. We saved them because we could and because if we eventually get to a point where we want to coat actual photo paper, we have the bones. But in terms of priority for us, paper coating is on the "If Everything Goes Swimmingly and We're Stepping Over Loose Bales of Cash" section of the to-do list - and it's even toward the bottom of that.

3. Regarding processing: We can really only tackle one thing at a time - so until we have the capacity to make both our emulsions and processing chemistry, we must rely on what's in the market currently. We will throw our support behind labs, darkrooms and self-processors. And we will certainly encourage and hope for an open dialog with those who like to toss out the data sheet and experiment...

Photo Engineer · Oct 21, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
That's OK. I have 115 Ilfchrome Classic prints framed, and 344 conservation matted in dark storage. Endura Pro. RA4 numbers are growing and growing with each passing month (need off-site storage soon).

I am disturbed by PE's comment about his Ilfochrome Classic prints turning brown in dark storage. What freakishness is going on there??

I am all for a separate thread being started up to look at Ilfochrome Classic and RA4 materials.

As I said, lets move this to another thread.

Prof_Pixel · Oct 21, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
As I said, lets move this to another thread.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Nzoomed · Oct 21, 2016

Thanks for the latest update Dave!
Another question regarding the sensitizer...

Is the bottle shown in the photo the only stock left?
And if so, was this the same stock that was being used until scotchcrome was discontinued?

Meyer Trioplan · Oct 24, 2016

I've been following this thread for over a year now, and there's one question I realize I don't know the answer to:

How is Ferrania pronounced?

I've been presuming it's "Fur-AY-nee-uh" but is it really "Fur-AH-nyah" or something else entirely?

Prest_400 · Oct 24, 2016

Meyer Trioplan said:
How is Ferrania pronounced?

I've been presuming it's "Fur-AY-nee-uh" but is it really "Fur-AH-nyah" or something else entirely?

Something else in the "Ferr" part, albeit the latter has more or less the ending.

I tried to get some phonetics together (words ferro + Occitania in Spanish) and it may be "fɛ.rra.ni.a" or "FÈr-ra-ny-a". Thinking about it, it is hard to explain... But pronunciation in Latin derivated languages such as Spanish and Italian is stronger. The "r" is strong and rolled, the e is rather open.

One of the videos with Nicola has him mentioning Ferrania natively.

flavio81 · Oct 24, 2016

Meyer Trioplan said:
I've been following this thread for over a year now, and there's one question I realize I don't know the answer to:

How is Ferrania pronounced?

I've been presuming it's "Fur-AY-nee-uh" but is it really "Fur-AH-nyah" or something else entirely?

Just like in spanish: "Feh-rah-nee-ahh"

baachitraka · Oct 24, 2016

Dead Link Removed

Meyer Trioplan · Oct 24, 2016

Thanks for the clarifications! Now to re-train myself through repetitive speaking of it!

BobCrowley · Oct 24, 2016

flavio81 said:
Just like in spanish: "Feh-rah-nee-ahh"

I say Fa ra nee ahh. I hope I get it right when I speak with Nik this week.

Dead Link Removed

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 24, 2016

and while we're at it, it's nee kon, not na ee kon....

FILM Ferrania · Oct 24, 2016

BobCrowley said:
I say Fa ra nee ahh. I hope I get it right when I speak with Nik this week.

After hearing Nicola say it hundreds of times, I would say you're all very close...

It's more like "fǝ-RAH-nyah" (that's a schwa e in the first syllable in case the symbol doesn't render properly)

In Italian, it is pronounced in a very fluid way without a super clear definition between the syllables and a bit less stress on the second syllable, but the stress works well for the English pronunciation...

Diapositivo · Oct 24, 2016

FILM Ferrania said:
After hearing Nicola say it hundreds of times, I would say you're all very close...

It's more like "fǝ-RAH-nyah" (that's a schwa e in the first syllable in case the symbol doesn't render properly)

In Italian, it is pronounced in a very fluid way without a super clear definition between the syllables and a bit less stress on the second syllable, but the stress works well for the English pronunciation...

Actually in good Italian all vowels are pronounced in a clear way. There is no schwa in proper Italian pronunciation. That's typical of Neapolitan dialect (the only dialect using schwa).
But if people talk fast than unaccented vowels can begin resembling schwa.

So the correct pronunciation, if you want to sport a good Italian sound, is with the E clearly vocalised, as in "bEst".
A in FerrAnia is like in the word "After", and is accented.
IA in Ferrania is a diphthong, like in the English pronunciation on the film "FantasIA" (in the Italian pronunciation of the word Fantasia, on the contrary, the accent is on I and the vocal group is a hiatus).

fdonadio · Oct 24, 2016

Diapositivo said:
IA in Ferrania is a diphthong, like in the English pronunciation on the film "FantasIA" (in the Italian pronunciation of the word Fantasia, on the contrary, the accent is on I and the vocal group is a hiatus).

This talk reminds me of my 6th grade Portuguese Language classes. Diphthongs, hiatus and even trithongs (three vowels in the same syllable!) I believe this is called morphology.

Other complicated part was syntax, especially the subordinate clauses and stuff like that. We have several kinds of subordinate clauses in Portuguese and had to know all of them by heart, at least on the day of the test.

Porca miseria, eh?!

Cheers,
Flavio

ME Super · Oct 24, 2016

Aww, man, I think I've been mispronouncing it all this time. Oh well. Nächster Halt ist im italienischen Sektor. (Next stop is in the Italian Sector.)

Photo Engineer · Oct 24, 2016

Try Japanese!

Nzoomed · Oct 24, 2016

lol, I always used to pronounce it as Fer - rain - knee - a!
lol at least im not the only one.
After watching them say it on the videos, I have been saying it correctly

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 25, 2016

Photo Engineer said:
Try Japanese!

Try Icelandic!

Poisson Du Jour · Oct 25, 2016

Nzoomed said:
lol, I always used to pronounce it as Fer - rain - knee - a!
lol at least im not the only one.
After watching them say it on the videos, I have been saying it correctly

Prove to me otherwise that New Zealanders aren't adept at thoroughly mangling the English language!!

flavio81 · Oct 25, 2016

Poisson Du Jour said:
Try Icelandic!

Try Basque!!

Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

Photo Engineer

Photo Engineer

MattKing

Moderator

Photo Engineer

Poisson Du Jour

FILM Ferrania

Photo Engineer

Prof_Pixel

Nzoomed

Meyer Trioplan

Prest_400

flavio81

baachitraka

Meyer Trioplan

BobCrowley

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

FILM Ferrania

Diapositivo

fdonadio

ME Super

Photo Engineer

Nzoomed

Poisson Du Jour

Poisson Du Jour

flavio81

Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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