That probably a nod at the heritage. If I remember correctly ASA and ISO is more or less the same (replaced two national standards with a third international?). EI is close enough for amateurs.
I'm a little bit confused...
In the P30 part of the website, and in the "Best Practices" dokument it says that you Really Really should shoot at 80ASA. Somewhere in this discussion it says that P30 is made for D96 (cinema film) and d76 is the closest commercial match. It also says somewhere that continuous agitation is a good idea.
On the other hand. In the "Best Practices" document is only gives a time for D96 and D76 at 50 ASA, continuous agitation Also the rest of the D76 timess is for 'Normal' agitation.
Is this only because of that the times is what is reported back instead of what is tested at Film Ferrania?
PS: When trying developing Orwo N54 that also is a cinema film I suddenly got a whole new grayscale. It really seems that cinema film like D96/D76 and continuous agitation!
At $8.50 per roll I won't be buying any.
This is not so say that others should not buy at that price, but for me it is not a price I could justify, given my personal financial situation. If my income were higher I might consider buying a few rolls to try out, but realistically speaking I would not pay that price when I can buy Kodak or Ilford for less, or Foma or Arista Edu Ultra or Kentmere for a lot less money.
One question is why are they using the ASA standard which hasn't been used in 30 years. Did they really test it or is it just a retro marketing shtick. Or maybe ASA stands for Anecdotal Standards Association. I'm doubting densitometry was involved.
My guess is that back in 1958 when P30 was first made, it WAS rated at 80ASA.
That probably a nod at the heritage. If I remember correctly ASA and ISO is more or less the same (replaced two national standards with a third international?). EI is close enough for amateurs./Johan
So it maybe should be "MSA" (for Marco Standards Association)We call it ASA because Marco says we call it ASA. Until Marco says differently, we will call it ASA.
Very well said. +1BTW: Congratulations on re-opening. Major milestone for Ferrania... and all of us. Very easy for us to overlook the significance of this... and quickly beef about how long it's been, how far behind schedule, etc, when in fact resurrection is a pretty doggone rare thing. Good work!
I should think it would be equally good news for film shooters and even every producer if Kodak could get Ektachrome to market, but it may (not so) surprisingly take them equally as long. But these days, I should think EVERY company that is able to put film into production helps to support (rebuild) the infrastructure, distribution and ultimately the demand and sustainability of the film community. Bravo for Ferrania for overcoming the odds!
.....
PS: When trying developing Orwo N54 that also is a cinema film I suddenly got a whole new grayscale. It really seems that cinema film like D96/D76 and continuous agitation!
At $8.50 per roll I won't be buying any.
This is not so say that others should not buy at that price, but for me it is not a price I could justify, given my personal financial situation. If my income were higher I might consider buying a few rolls to try out, but realistically speaking I would not pay that price when I can buy Kodak or Ilford for less, or Foma or Arista Edu Ultra or Kentmere for a lot less money.
Cinema film usually is developed in machines which continuously transport the film and there are jets or other stuff, which moves the developer around all the time. Therefore cinemafilms should be developed with continuous agitation. This also may/should aplly to Orwo UN54, but this material should be very different from P30, as UN54 is a modern emulsion having a lot of "tricks" which a traditional emulsion like P30 doesn´t have. Therefore i don´t know if the new grayscale is due to continuous agitation.
Anyway P30 should benefit from cont. agit. .
Cinema film usually is developed in machines which continuously transport the film and there are jets or other stuff, which moves the developer around all the time. Therefore cinemafilms should be developed with continuous agitation. This also may/should aplly to Orwo UN54, but this material should be very different from P30, as UN54 is a modern emulsion having a lot of "tricks" which a traditional emulsion like P30 doesn´t have. Therefore i don´t know if the new grayscale is due to continuous agitation.
Anyway P30 should benefit from cont. agit. .
...an TODAY you are telling such stories...while reading it was like how my grandfather told stories when I was young.
Harry, how do you know about these "tricks"?
PE
...while reading it was like how my grandfather told stories when I was young.
...
PS : Agitation within a machine developement is a normal think. For the rest of Harry Calahan's explanation we should able to wait until he will cover it out more precisely?
I´m sorry if i talked you to sleep... on the other hand i wasn´t adressing you either.
An expert said in another forum that UN54 is a modern emulsion having a lot of improvements traditional emulsions don´t have. I´m not an expert, but from pictures i see UN54 does seem to have full red-sensitivity, maybe some modern grain like T-grain or something similar; somewhere it also was mentioned that UN54 has a special hardened gelatin-layer, resulting in even smaller risk of the emlusion peeling off during developement and maybe fewer friction when running through movie-cameras especially. And as most modern films are an offshoot of the once revolutionary "Dünnschicht-Film" UN54 probably also is, while P30 probably isn´t which also would explain the high silver-content of P30.
I´m sorry if i talked you to sleep... on the other hand i wasn´t adressing you either.
I just wanted to point out that cinemafilm wasn´t intended for stand- or semi-stand-developement. Off course if you give a 135-cartridge to a lab they will process it in a machine, giving the film continous agitation, but a lot of foto-films also can be developed with non-continuous agitation, because manufacturers designed them like that - as far as i know - so self-developers can use technices like semi-stand etc. , but P30 being a "true" cinemafilm, only intended for machine-developement, should do best in continuous agitation.
And as UN54 is a modern emulsion, probably having another grain-structure, i don´t know whether it also does benefit from continous agitation, as UN54 should differ quite a lot from P30 - and i also don´t know whether UN54 was intended as a cinema-film at all, because Filmotec does produce surveilance-films primarily, which usually are loaded into photo-cameras - trying to get a snapshot of you when you´re driving too fast - but not into movie-film-cameras necessarily. Therefore UN54 might also be intended for semi-stand etc., while P30 wasn´t/isn´t. At least not as much as UN54 *might* be.
Full red sensitivity and good hardness were known for over 60 years. The trick was to prevent continuing hardness that ended up in curl and cracking. The red sensitivity extended back just as far. No tricks here. I find no references to Dunnschicht-Film.
PE
Mitteilungen aus den Forschungslaboratorien der Agfa-Gevaert-Ag., Leverkusen und München, Springer 1964
View attachment 194546
Mitteilungen aus den Forschungslaboratorien der Agfa-Gevaert-Ag., Leverkusen und München, Springer 1964
View attachment 194546
Sir, I don't mean to dis-respect your comment. The word 'trick' is very nostalgic when I connect it to my grandfather.(He was serving as a fireman under British rule)
Full red sensitivity and good hardness were known for over 60 years. The trick was to prevent continuing hardness that ended up in curl and cracking. The red sensitivity extended back just as far. No tricks here. I find no references to Dunnschicht-Film.
PE
Thank you for comming more precisely to your points Harry.
I might be also No real expert - so as you.
But I am not sure if stand development is an issue, bw films are prepared for from design.
So what is design of a film emulsion in general.
It is a find out phase - a try with different
....
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