Heiland Cold Light source.

[Luckypete]

I have been offered a Heiland Cold Light source + b&w controller for a Durst M670 (which I have) at a very reasonable price – unused apparently. I have a RH designs Analyser pro.

My question for those that have experience of the Heiland: is it worth it and if so why?

 

[koraks]

Is this the modern LED system or some older fluorescent cold light contraption? Not sure if he made the latter, but I do know Heiland made other light sources than his current lineup of LED sources some 20+ years ago. I think he made something similar to the Ilford 500 system; it's technically not a cold light, though.

I understand the LED source is quite nice. I've never used it myself, but a few of my acquaintances have. They seem to be quite happy with it. I myself am quite enthusiastic about LED light sources in general; they work fine and run relatively cool, and offer accurate and consistent exposures. However, accuracy and consistency are just as possible with an 'old-fashioned' light source, evidently.

In the end, I think the main question is whether you like gadgets. If so, the Heiland system is the way to go.

 

[Luckypete]

This is their (Heiland) latest device. I do like gadgets, however my consideration here is print quality, consistency, ease of use, etc.

Its still not cheap, so I am looking for experienced advice so I can weigh up the cost benefit.

 

[koraks]

This is going to be a "YMMV situation" to the max. In all honesty, I don't believe you're going to make better prints with the Heiland unit. You may or may not prefer the user interface over a regular dichroic or VC head, but that's a highly personal matter. In terms of productivity, it's not going to make a world of difference, although I personally do prefer some kind of split grade or VC controls over twiddling the knobs of a dichroic head to set the filter grade. The Heiland does offer that, at least with the B&W controller. Whether that's worth the investment is, again, a very personal call.

But I'll let others who use the actual Heiland system do the rest of the talking; it's fair you're looking for their advice, specifically. I expect it will be biased in favor of the Heiland system, but that's only fair and not necessarily a problem.

 

[Jammoh]

It depends not only but also somewhat on what the "reasonable price" is. Heilands systems are all pricey but excellent. Also, what do you mean by B&W controller, is it Heiland's Splitgrade controller?

I have and use both with my Durst and am very happy with them. The light source is fantastic, giving out independently Green or Blue for split grade printing, Red as a safe light and white light for focussing or graded paper if needed. The illumination is strong and even. If you are a fan of split grade printing then you would be happy with it. I have no experience with the RH Analyser so I can't compare. The controller demands a bit of a learning curve that once mastered makes life in the darkroom easier, depending on the application of course and requiring an understanding of its function. Christopher Osborne brought out a very useful guide on how to use the controller which I would recommend as Heiland's Users Manual is not truly sufficient. You will be happy with it.

There is a Facebook group dedicated to the system.

 

[fophem]

Hello Luckypete, I use the Heiland LED on my Durst L1200. I have the B&W controler (not the splitgrade one) and the color controler. Will you be able to make better prints with it? maybe... Everything I do with the LEDs I could do it with my color dichroic head. But now I can do it much more smoothly.
About the contrast, I did some test prints from a stepwedge. I get the same contrast at 00 and 5 with both. The #2 I get from the LEDs is about the same as a #3 from my dichroic head.
About the light intensity. I can adjust it by 4 stops in .1 steps (from 0 to -40, not sure if it's the same on every LED source they make) . It's very convenient, you can change the size of a print without changing your lens aperture or the times, just the brightness factor.
About the ease of use. It's much more smooth to dodge/burn especially at different grades. I control the system (safe light, grades etc...) with one hand, I do the dodging or burning with the other and start the timer wit a foot pedal. A pure joy, I don't have to fiddle with the head filter dials between exposures anymore. If you are into splitgrade, it's also very easy. the 00 is just one click away from the 5.
On the L1200 it replaces the diffusion box (I don't know if it's the same for the M670). From time to time I wanted to print with my condenser head and had to remove the color one to put the condenser one...not very convenient! now I can leave my condenser head on the enlarger. The LED box takes the place of the condensers when I want to print with a diffusion light, and when I need a condenser and tungsten light, I just remove the LED box, put the condensers and use my condenser head as usual.
The illumination is perfectly even, border to border and obviously very stable in time. But that is also the case with my CLS501 color head.
Another very important point (for me!) it's silent...
Is it better than other LED systems? I don't know, that's the only one I used. Koraks build one himself, there is a great description of it on his web page. It looks very impressive, but it takes some time, effort, and quite a bit of talent to achieve a project like that!

Hope this helps

 

[koraks]

Koraks build one himself, there is a great description of it on his web page. It looks very impressive, but it takes some time, effort, and quite a bit of talent to achieve a project like that!

Thanks, and the time & effort wasn't just "some" - it's a lot, and it's in a way an ongoing process. And it's well beyond the capabilities of most photographers to do this, so I wouldn't recommend it. Mostly because it's all time you could spend making photographs instead!

This is why your sharing your experiences with the commercially available option is so valuable.

 

[Luckypete]

fophem thank you for your detailed experience; this is what I was looking for.

 

[fophem]

You're welcome. Let us know if you buy it and your experience if you do. By the way, I've just seen you've started a thread about the calibration of the RH design analyser. You may want to wait till you have the LED light as it may give you completely different results.
And Koraks, yes "some time" was obviously a huge understatement!

 

[markbau]

Whenever I see the words "Cold Light" the hairs on the back of my neck stand to attention. I was around in the very early days of the internet when Fred Picker was selling his cold light heads by saying that unless you used his cold light heads your prints would be rubbish. Anyway, although I love Heiland products, I purchased Jurgen's densitometer when it came out and it is an amazing piece of equipment, and I have just ordered his safelight, you will not see any difference between using his cold light and a dichroic head.

 

[Luckypete]

Yes, I used to correspond with Fred Picker in the late 70's and early 80's when I was first learning the Zone system.
I sent some 4x5 negs off to him to measure fog+base for Tri-X, there was no one here in the UK who even understood the Zone System.
Still got his wonderful little book, which I ordered from him direct.
I also hankered for a Zone VI Cold Light but I ended up buying a Lines & Jones from here in the UK – I no longer have it !
The reason I asked about the Heiland was that there was one available quite cheap (its gone now anyway) and my old Durst M670 makes a hell of a noise (sometimes) and has recently blown a couple of bulbs so it may be on the way out.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...although I love Heiland products, I purchased Jurgen's densitometer when it came out and it is an amazing piece of equipment, and I have just ordered his safelight, you will not see any difference between using his cold light and a dichroic head.

If enlarging film that has very glossy emulsion side, such as TMX or Acros I/II, it's entirely possible to see a difference. Because the Heiland light source will enable using a glassless negative carrier without negative buckling during exposure, while the dichroic head requires a glass negative carrier to maintain flatness. Thus, the visible difference will be an absence of Newton's rings in the print enlarged using a Heiland source.

 

[Luckypete]

I don't have a problem with Newton Rings as I use AN glass in the top and nothing in the bottom. Also I don't find the negs distort with 35mm to 6x7

 

[koraks]

my old Durst M670 makes a hell of a noise (sometimes)

Does it have a fan? If so, see if you can fix or replace it. I only had M305's and an M605, which were fanless and hence dead quiet.

 

[mshchem]

I have three Zone VI VC cold light heads, with RH Designs vario f stop timers fabulous. Of course I got the enlargers for the cost of a box of sheet film today. These are just a bit quirky.


Marisa Tomei
"So tell me, how is it that a man like you, so bald, so quirky and funny, how is it you're not taken?"

 

[mshchem]

I have three Zone VI VC cold light heads, with RH Designs vario f stop timers fabulous. Of course I got the enlargers for the cost of a box of sheet film today. These are just a bit quirky.


Marisa Tomei
"So tell me, how is it that a man like you, so bald, so quirky and funny, how is it you're not taken?"

Also absolutely silent.

 

[otto.f]

I use the Heiland splitgrade and LED head on my Beseler. I really had to get used to the short exposure time, the light is very bright. It is very soft too, which is good, but I had to lengthen my development times with 15 or 20% compared to the condensor head. That said, I’m now happy with my results and the quality of my prints.
Heiland Splitgrade promisses a lot of less work and says that test prints aren‘t necessary anymore. That is not true. Especially while they never update the standard times for film-paper combinations. Some important papers like Bergger neutral tone have never been added to the software and papers like AGFA Classic are in the system but are not available anymore. Adding your own standard times is far from user friendly, I don’t understand it at least.

 

[Luckypete]

No fan; it's the transformer. A little kick now and then shuts it up for a while.

 

[Pieter12]

I use the Heiland splitgrade and LED head on my Beseler. I really had to get used to the short exposure time, the light is very bright. It is very soft too, which is good, but I had to lengthen my development times with 15 or 20% compared to the condensor head. That said, I’m now happy with my results and the quality of my prints.
Heiland Splitgrade promisses a lot of less work and says that test prints aren‘t necessary anymore. That is not true. Especially while they never update the standard times for film-paper combinations. Some important papers like Bergger neutral tone have never been added to the software and papers like AGFA Classic are in the system but are not available anymore. Adding your own standard times is far from user friendly, I don’t understand it at least.

Not sure which controller you have for the Heiland head. The simpler model I have allows me adjust the light over a 2-stop range, but does not offer any analysis or automation. So I just make test strips as usual, fine by me. Not sure what you mean by soft, though.

 

[koraks]

No fan; it's the transformer. A little kick now and then shuts it up for a while.

Hm, ok, might be something simple like a piece of the plastic housing resonating.

 

[otto.f]

Not sure which controller you have for the Heiland head. The simpler model I have allows me adjust the light over a 2-stop range, but does not offer any analysis or automation. So I just make test strips as usual, fine by me. Not sure what you mean by soft, though.

Soft is a misleading word indeed. What I mean is the light is like with the Aristo cold light head more diffuse. It is less bouncing back from the blacks in the negative than with a condenser head > more details in highlights in the print.
I can dim the light with 2 stops indeed. With relatively small enlargements compared to the size of the negative the exposure times are quite short; I don’t like small apertures in the lens.

 

[koraks]

What I mean is the light is like with the Aristo cold light head more diffuse.

Indeed, and as such, it prints at a lower contrast than a condenser setup with a collimated light source.

It is less bouncing back from the blacks in the negative than with a condenser head

Sorry, no, backscatter has nothing to do with this. The amount of backscatter at the negative/film stage won't be different between a condenser vs. diffuser setup; the directionality will be different, but this doesn't matter since the backscatter is simply absorbed by the light source and/or surrounding parts. Moreover, it's the black parts of the negative that absorb light the most (so it would be less in the dark parts of the negative), although backscatter will generally be an interaction between the light and the film surface in which case it's the same regardless of negative density (which is transmissive density especially when looked at the film base side; you can verify this with any random negative).

Moreover, the backscatter effect doesn't do much, other than add a tiny bit of diffusion to a condenser setup (but it'll be insignificant). In a diffuser setup, it won't do anything at all. Backscatter at the paper plane does play a role, but again is no different between a condenser and diffuser setup and it's the reason why enlarger parts around the lens are generally matte black; it's to prevent this backscatter to project back onto the print, reducing contrast.

When it comes to the contrast characteristics of a Heiland head, it's no different than any other diffuse light source. What's different mostly is the wavelength of the light, which is narrow-band; for B&W this doesn't really matter, but for color work it's a significant factor.

 

[otto.f]

Indeed, and as such, it prints at a lower contrast than a condenser setup with a collimated light source.



Sorry, no, backscatter has nothing to do with this. The amount of backscatter at the negative/film stage won't be different between a condenser vs. diffuser setup; the directionality will be different, but this doesn't matter since the backscatter is simply absorbed by the light source and/or surrounding parts. Moreover, it's the black parts of the negative that absorb light the most (so it would be less in the dark parts of the negative), although backscatter will generally be an interaction between the light and the film surface in which case it's the same regardless of negative density (which is transmissive density especially when looked at the film base side; you can verify this with any random negative).

Moreover, the backscatter effect doesn't do much, other than add a tiny bit of diffusion to a condenser setup (but it'll be insignificant). In a diffuser setup, it won't do anything at all. Backscatter at the paper plane does play a role, but again is no different between a condenser and diffuser setup and it's the reason why enlarger parts around the lens are generally matte black; it's to prevent this backscatter to project back onto the print, reducing contrast.

When it comes to the contrast characteristics of a Heiland head, it's no different than any other diffuse light source. What's different mostly is the wavelength of the light, which is narrow-band; for B&W this doesn't really matter, but for color work it's a significant factor.

Are you suggesting that condensor, cold light head and led head are giving the same prints, ceterus paribus?

 

[koraks]

In terms of diffusion, cold head, led head and many dichroic color heads perform similarly. There are other differences such as wavelength/filtering of the light, which results in differences.

 

[john_s]

I have three Zone VI VC cold light heads, with RH Designs vario f stop timers fabulous. Of course I got the enlargers for the cost of a box of sheet film today. These are just a bit quirky.


Marisa Tomei
"So tell me, how is it that a man like you, so bald, so quirky and funny, how is it you're not taken?"

Which Zone VI VC heads do you have? All the same as each other? I had one of the first 4x5 ones (still have in storage) and found it a bit dim for 35mm especially, and didn't give high contrast. Now I use an Aristo VCL4500 VC head which I'm happy with.