HCB Appreciation

[nikos79]

If Henri Cartier-Bresson was photography’s Bach with the power, discipline, and strictness of form, then André Kertész was its Mozart, where form becomes effortless, playful, and inseparable from the joy of content.

And perhaps Ansel Adams is the John Williams of photography

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The shots you don't end up using are never wasted.
And I include the film that those shots end up on when I say that.
When I do anything like the photography that we know HCB for, the shots that don't end up being shared aren't failures, they are part of the process.
And it is my involvement in the process that leads to the result.
I expect HCB would have refused a commission that required him to take only one shot.
In comparison, someone like Karsh worked in an environment where more of the variables were controlled by him, so there was an expectation that the number of shots would be limited. But anyone who has ever seen the two versions he shot of his famous Churchill portrait would know that even he shot more than one.
I acknowledge, of course, that when I use bigger/more expensive film, I feel more constrained in what experiments I undertake. But I still undertake them, because the process of taking the unchosen ones is part of what leads to the chosen result.

Pros don't show their mistakes.

 

[Milpool]

If Henri Cartier-Bresson was photography’s Bach with the power, discipline, and strictness of form, then André Kertész was its Mozart, where form becomes effortless, playful, and inseparable from the joy of content.

Nonsense. You can like HCB’s pictures to the moon and back and that’s great, but these kinds of desperate analogies are ridiculous.

Ok I apologize for taking a wrong turn into this thread again. Last time, I promise.

 

[Don_ih]

Pros don't show their mistakes.

They weren't mistakes. They were inferior options. And insecure "pros" pretend they don't make mistakes. But everyone makes mistakes - a real "pro" rectifies them.

 

[nikos79]

They weren't mistakes. They were inferior options. And insecure "pros" pretend they don't make mistakes. But everyone makes mistakes - a real "pro" rectifies them.

There is no such thing as a "professional" artist at least in my definition of one and HCB was for sure one artist.
He was also (as the majority of photographers at that time) a professional photographer which did a lot of assignments. I think he did his job pretty well there too.

 

[MattKing]

Pros don't show their mistakes.

My niece got married this summer.
The wedding photographer and her second shooter together shot around 4000 exposures of the event.
There are bunches and bunches of really fun and fine photographs amongst everything that the two women "captured" that day.
Some stand out a bit extra.
There are some duds interspersed through the 4000 - by duds I mean that there are much better examples of shots showing similar subjects.
Plus some shots from amongst the dancers on the very joyous and chaotic dance floor that revealed the uncertainties inherent in that very dark and very fluid environment - i.e. they were a bit screwed up.
Photos that aren't the very best in a bunch aren't mistakes.

 

[nikos79]

Nonsense. You can like HCB’s pictures to the moon and back and that’s great, but these kinds of desperate analogies are ridiculous.

Ok I apologize for taking a wrong turn into this thread again. Last time, I promise.

OK maybe say HCB was Le Bron James of photography and Andre Kertesz Michael Jordan? Or HCB was Pelle and Kertesz Maradona? Or HCB Bergmann and Kertesz Fellini?

Don't take these things too seriously I am mostly joking. We are not worshipping HCB or pray to the bible of decisive moment here

 

[Don_ih]

There is no such thing as a "professional" artist

You may want to consider a less idealized notion of "artist". There are plenty of professional artists.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

My niece got married this summer.
The wedding photographer and her second shooter together shot around 4000 exposures of the event.
There are bunches and bunches of really fun and fine photographs amongst everything that the two women "captured" that day.
Some stand out a bit extra.
There are some duds interspersed through the 4000 - by duds I mean that there are much better examples of shots showing similar subjects.
Plus some shots from amongst the dancers on the very joyous and chaotic dance floor that revealed the uncertainties inherent in that very dark and very fluid environment - i.e. they were a bit screwed up.
Photos that aren't the very best in a bunch aren't mistakes.

Pros only show the best of their work in their portfolios and websites. Why would they show their seconds and losers? What they do with their wedding clients is a different matter. By the way, I never said a "fun" picture is a loser. It could be the best of the bunch.

 

[MattKing]

Why would they show their seconds and losers?

Because what you refer to as the "seconds" may very well provide a more thorough revelation of the photographer's depth and flexibility and creativity.
And what you consider a "loser" may very well be someone else's winner.
Thus the popularity of the photographic series, as well as projects documenting a place/event/people or evolutionary change.
HCB did documentary type projects too you know.

 

[nikos79]

Some stand out a bit extra.

Exactly simple as that.

Photos that aren't the very best in a bunch aren't mistakes.

In the digital era we can do that. Mistakes cost nothing

 

[cliveh]

My niece got married this summer.
The wedding photographer and her second shooter together shot around 4000 exposures of the event.
There are bunches and bunches of really fun and fine photographs amongst everything that the two women "captured" that day.
Some stand out a bit extra.
There are some duds interspersed through the 4000 - by duds I mean that there are much better examples of shots showing similar subjects.
Plus some shots from amongst the dancers on the very joyous and chaotic dance floor that revealed the uncertainties inherent in that very dark and very fluid environment - i.e. they were a bit screwed up.
Photos that aren't the very best in a bunch aren't mistakes.

4000 exposures belongs to the digital age. I have never shot more than about 7 exposures of a similar view. Film photography is not spray and pray, but a much more considered contemplation of that moment within the composition..

 

[nikos79]

4000 exposures belongs to the digital age. I have never shot more than about 7 exposures of a similar view. Film photography is not spray and pray, but a much more considered contemplation of that moment within the composition..

Imagine poor Sudek.. One arm and 20kg camera ... and don't how many, 12 exposures?

 

[MattKing]

4000 exposures belongs to the digital age. I have never shot more than about 7 exposures of a similar view. Film photography is not spray and pray, but a much more considered contemplation of that moment within the composition..

A wedding is a multi-faceted, many person event. So even back in the day, I would expose 10 - 12 rolls of 12 exposure film at a wedding of that size and length.
I saw no really wasted exposures in the several hundred shots my niece shared with us - just lots of variety.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Because what you refer to as the "seconds" may very well provide a more thorough revelation of the photographer's depth and flexibility and creativity.
And what you consider a "loser" may very well be someone else's winner.
Thus the popularity of the photographic series, as well as projects documenting a place/event/people or evolutionary change.
HCB did documentary type projects too you know.

No pro will publish photos he doesn't think are good enough. It would be like a surgeon showing his face lifting failures in an ad. "Let me redo your face. I promise it will come out better."

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Exactly simple as that.


In the digital era we can do that. Mistakes cost nothing

Who's going to hire a pro photographer if he publishes shots that look like crap?

 

[Mike Lopez]

Because what you refer to as the "seconds" may very well provide a more thorough revelation of the photographer's depth and flexibility and creativity.
And what you consider a "loser" may very well be someone else's winner.
Thus the popularity of the photographic series, as well as projects documenting a place/event/people or evolutionary change.
HCB did documentary type projects too you know.

Additionally, the contact sheet in question was taken from a huge volume of contact sheets from many pros, published by Magnum a handful of years ago—well after HCB died. The book is in my lap right now, and the caption to that contact sheet reads, in part, “…contact sheet reconstructed by the Fondation Henri Cartier-Bresson in the presumed order in which the photographs were taken.” (Emphasis mine)

This is by no means a book of HCB saying “I’m a pro, but here, look at my mistakes!” The talk about whether or not pros show their mistakes is a silly and needless red herring, distracting from the original intent of this thread.

 

[nikos79]

Who's going to hire a pro photographer if he publishes shots that look like crap?

I think the point of taking bad photos is that we can reject them easily?
I would say forget them, delete them, and of course not publish them!

 

[foc]

The first HCB photo I saw was "the bycycle." just as I was getting interested in photography at the age of 15, many, many years ago.

Being a cocky teenager, I thought, "I could do that; it's easy." ......... He was so right when he said " your first 10,000 photos are your worst"

What caught my attention with HCB work was that it looked simple, easy composition (maybe not the best choice of words but you get my drift) Lift tought me that something that appears easy is far from it.

I try not to overanalyse his work. I just enjoy it and be inspired by it.

BTW I shot weddings professionally for 30 years, 15 on film and 15 digital. I never showed any that I thought weren't 100%, and my opinion was less is more, regarding the number of images. (not "don't mind the quality, feel the width!")

 

[Don_ih]

Let's remember that current wedding photographers vary from very good to "my aunt's Lucy's son who's a recovering meth addict and taking photos as therapy - but he's cheap!"

"Professional" photographer doesn't mean very much.

 

[Pioneer]

This seems like kind of a silly question. If we are talking about a professional photographer they are typically NOT working for themselves. They have a client and I think it depends on who the client is and what they are paying for. If the client is an event coordinator and you charged them for 4,000 digital frames or 100 rolls of film and the time spent to take those pictures, they may have the right to see them whether you want to show them or not.

 

[MattKing]

No pro will publish photos he doesn't think are good enough. It would be like a surgeon showing his face lifting failures in an ad. "Let me redo your face. I promise it will come out better."

Don't you mean he or she?
Do you think that every photo opportunity only leads to a single best photo?
Do you think HCB thought that?
Have you never looked through a number of photos from a photo opportunity and had trouble choosing between them, because there are several with strengths that you value?
Have you never taken a number of photos and been proud of and been happy with several.
From a professional's perspective, have you never done a shoot that results in so many different but excellent results, that you are keen to show several to prospective clients, because they can see the breadth and depth of your vision and creativity, and how varied your results can be. Many clients insist on results that give them choice.
My best photographic experiences result in several results to choose from.
And I expect HCB was as uncomfortable with the attention to "decisive moment" because of the implication that it was necessarily limited to one, singular moment.
Real life is full of things that have lots of different moments that are decisive in many ways.

 

[Arthurwg]

Man, that's great photo. Well seen!

Dale

Have not heard "well seen" in decades. I think Minor White used that phrase.

 

[nikos79]

Please can we stop referring to "mistake" photos when talking about HCB?
In many frames, perhaps most, the alignment of geometry, light, gesture, and “the moment” simply wouldn’t happen.

This is normal given his style of approaching the art, capturing something like a visual climax, the convergence of lines, shapes, light and framing that only a photograph can freeze (I took the expression from John Szarkowsky).

 

[cliveh]

With regards to the number of photographs taken, it very much depends on the sort of work you are doing. If you are a fashion or advertising photographer, you can repose the model/ rearrange the set etc. If like HCB you are photographing life as it happens, you have limited variations.