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HCB Appreciation

nikos79 said:
Yes totally opposite opinions that's why I quoted it to show that their own notion of truth is totally different as you said
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Yes, but that's the reason to not quote it. He's arguing against Cartier-Bresson's position assuming a premise that Cartier-Bresson would disagree with. So he's not talking about the same thing. Anyway, what's any of this have to do with anything?
 
Don_ih said:
Yes, but that's the reason to not quote it. He's arguing against Cartier-Bresson's position assuming a premise that Cartier-Bresson would disagree with. So he's not talking about the same thing. Anyway, what's any of this have to do with anything?
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Not very much tbh. Perhaps we have exhausted the HCB thread and running out of ideas
 
And then we have this: -


Look at the detail in the moment he chose to press the shutter.
 
cliveh said:
And then we have this: -

View attachment 414264
Look at the detail in the moment he chose to press the shutter.
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I do enjoy this picture. Just a break for lunch and everyone has their back to you and yet there is so much there to appreciate. I may be wrong but I think most of us would have been trying to get a frontal view.
 
cliveh said:
And then we have this: -

View attachment 414264
Look at the detail in the moment he chose to press the shutter.
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I’m not sure Clive. I have the feeling that this photograph doesn’t fully avoid illustration. It is very well formed and composed, yes, almost resembling a Renoir-like theme, but for HCB it feels more like a documentation of a scene. I don’t really sense an elevation or transformation of the moment here especially when compared to many of his other photographs. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts, and others as well.

Edit: Nevertheless I like this photo. The figures are very balanced, the river at correct proportion, the atmosphere. But it lacks something to elevate it even more, I don't know what could that be. Perhaps if all the other persons except for the one with the hat were missing or if the one with the hat wasn't pouring wine and was just staying still... But trying to think how a photo would work is just a post-game in reality you can't do much but instinctively react to the subject and frame it
 

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My daughter says get rid of the people and the mess they're making - maybe keep the guy with the bottle but move his mirror image to the other side so he balances the view of the boat.

Improvement.
 
nikos79 said:
I don’t really sense an elevation or transformation of the moment
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I see that photo as one of the many witty images HCB made where he playfully takes a jab at the people he's ultimately one of. For me, this is one of the images that shows an association between HCB and Martin Parr. Not such a far-fetched notion, either; a quick online search turns up this fairly recent show featuring both photographers' works: https://www.henricartierbresson.org/en/expositions/henri-cartier-bresson-with-martin-parr/ I wasn't aware of the link, but it makes good sense to me. I think this is a neat illustration of what I said before.
 
nikos79 said:
It is very well formed and composed, yes, almost resembling a Renoir-like theme, but for HCB it feels more like a documentation of a scene.
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It’s Seurat, not Renoir, that I think of. I feel almost certain HCB would have had his paintings in mind when he took this and other well-known photos of picnickers or bathers by the Seine.
 
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Don_ih said:
My daughter says get rid of the people and the mess they're making - maybe keep the guy with the bottle but move his mirror image to the other side so he balances the view of the boat.

Improvement.
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She has a very good eye. Is she a photographer too?
 

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Don_ih said:
It's as much about the boat as anything else, isn't it? It's a scene.
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No, I don’t think so. I think it’s about the people relaxing. The boat tells you it’s a river, which might not otherwise be obvious, but its just fortuitous really.

In The Europeans a few of HCB’s photos on this theme are captioned ‘First paid holidays’. I’m away from home so I can’t check whether this one is so captioned. But it’s hard for us today to comprehend what a big step in social history that provision was, and how recent.
 
snusmumriken said:
I can’t check whether this one is so captioned
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Whatever it's captioned, the boat is essential to completing the composition. It's nothing near the same photo without it. Think in terms of the geometry Cartier-Bresson talked about so much.
 

I see what you mean about the historical and social importance.

Personally, I feel like everything in the frame should contribute to the image itself otherwise it could very well be removed without changing the work.
Here the boat, the people, the wine, they set the scene but they don’t really transform it. If HCB wanted to document the first paid holidays and giving us the feeling of "presence" and of being there to see it and being part of it, he nailed it sure.

But as a photograph that stands on its own as art or relate to the passion of geometry of HCB, I don’t feel it has the same visual poetry or impact.

P.S. I just checked my HCB book "The Europeans" it is indeed been titled "The first paid holidays"
 
As I see it, everything in that photo does contribute. The composition is excellent, we know where the scene is set, we are right up close to the action, albeit as observers rather than participants, and the workers are enjoying their new-found right to relax occasionally without forfeiting pay.
And there’s that substantial nod to Seurat too.
 
Arthurwg said:
I'm reminded of the painter George Baselitz who often presented his subjects upside down.
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I think the upside down view is just a guide and although I often have a Vidon finder in the shoe of my M2, I don't use it all the time, but perhaps occasionally. It would be interesting to hear from large format photographers who are seeing this all the time. Do they ever change the composition they originally chose when viewing the image upside down and inverted? Francis Meadow Sutcliffe comes to mind as a master of composition.
 
And BTW, I do wonder why no one seems very interested in HCB's drawings. I don't think there's a book about them. One might think his genius was transferable.
 
Arthurwg said:
And BTW, I do wonder why no one seems very interested in HCB's drawings. I don't think there's a book about them. One might think his genius was transferable.
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His drawings are quite good, but nothing special. They look like he is trying to copy the style of Leonardo Davinci, but not quite making the grade. His photography is much better. There are many instances of artists who excel in one medium who think they can do the same in another, but can't.
 

Pictures are displayed right-side up. I started LF photography only a few years ago so I may be the wrong guy to ask. But I find seeing better composition works better right side up. That's the way the brain works.
 
I think portrait in LF is especially hard upside down because features display internal emotions. A smile becomes a frown. How do you know when the best time to shoot? The brain can't see into the subject very well. Upside down may work better with simple geometric shapes and minimalism. But beyond that, right-side up works better.
 
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